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Home Repair - - If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Otherwise look here.
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Posted by Chris on March 1, 2007, 8:18 am
Hello,
I have a small cottage (construction in progress) where living during
the weekends; there is one room, 16' x 24' with a cathedral ceiling,
16' high at the top.
Inside this, is an open (no walls) mezzanine (as bedroom) 16' x 12'.
For heating I have installed a wood stove and a ceiling fan for air
circulation.
As a second option for heating (mainly during the night or when not
in), I did install baseboards for heating this room with a total power
of 4000 watts.
The sizing formula for baseboards, I found from web, is:
"Required power (in watts) for baseboards is calculated by multiplying
the number of square feet in a given room by 10."
Thus a 16 x 24 ft. room (380 sq. ft) will require 3,840 watts of power
(380 x 10).
I am using one programmable thermostat which supports 4000 watts.
I am wondering if this is enough, considering there is a cathedral
ceiling and living in areas where in winter is cold (Canada).
If I have to add more heating elements, is it better to add portable
heaters or another thermostat with new baseboards?
How many watts should I add for heating elements?
Thank you, Chris
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Posted by hallerb@aol.com on March 1, 2007, 8:25 am
> Hello,
>
> I have a small cottage (construction in progress) where living during
> the weekends; there is one room, 16' x 24' with a cathedral ceiling,
> 16' high at the top.
> Inside this, is an open (no walls) mezzanine (as bedroom) 16' x 12'.
> For heating I have installed a wood stove and a ceiling fan for air
> circulation.
> As a second option for heating (mainly during the night or when not
> in), I did install baseboards for heating this room with a total power
> of 4000 watts.
> The sizing formula for baseboards, I found from web, is:
> "Required power (in watts) for baseboards is calculated by multiplying
> the number of square feet in a given room by 10."
> Thus a 16 x 24 ft. room (380 sq. ft) will require 3,840 watts of power
> (380 x 10).
> I am using one programmable thermostat which supports 4000 watts.
> I am wondering if this is enough, considering there is a cathedral
> ceiling and living in areas where in winter is cold (Canada).
> If I have to add more heating elements, is it better to add portable
> heaters or another thermostat with new baseboards?
> How many watts should I add for heating elements?
>
> Thank you, Chris
The cathedral cieling is a killer, I would of gone with radiant floor
heat, puts heat where you are.
in cathedral cieling ALL heat goes to peak. cieling fan helps but
creatyes cool draft.
4000 watts totally undersized, might be lucky to keep building barely
above freezing in zero weather.
so how thick are the walls? what sort of insulation? closed cell foam
R6 PER INCH elminates drafts too.
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Posted by Big_Jake on March 1, 2007, 9:36 am
>
>
>
> > Hello,
>
> > I have a small cottage (construction in progress) where living during
> > the weekends; there is one room, 16' x 24' with a cathedral ceiling,
> > 16' high at the top.
> > Inside this, is an open (no walls) mezzanine (as bedroom) 16' x 12'.
> > For heating I have installed a wood stove and a ceiling fan for air
> > circulation.
> > As a second option for heating (mainly during the night or when not
> > in), I did install baseboards for heating this room with a total power
> > of 4000 watts.
> > The sizing formula for baseboards, I found from web, is:
> > "Required power (in watts) for baseboards is calculated by multiplying
> > the number of square feet in a given room by 10."
> > Thus a 16 x 24 ft. room (380 sq. ft) will require 3,840 watts of power
> > (380 x 10).
> > I am using one programmable thermostat which supports 4000 watts.
> > I am wondering if this is enough, considering there is a cathedral
> > ceiling and living in areas where in winter is cold (Canada).
> > If I have to add more heating elements, is it better to add portable
> > heaters or another thermostat with new baseboards?
> > How many watts should I add for heating elements?
>
> > Thank you, Chris
>
> The cathedral cieling is a killer, I would of gone with radiant floor
> heat, puts heat where you are.
>
> in cathedral cieling ALL heat goes to peak. cieling fan helps but
> creatyes cool draft.
>
> 4000 watts totally undersized, might be lucky to keep building barely
> above freezing in zero weather.
>
> so how thick are the walls? what sort of insulation? closed cell foam
> R6 PER INCH elminates drafts too.
Question - Did you mean electric radiant floor heat, like we often
seen under tile? Since it is a cabin, I am guessing that the OP might
not always have the heat on, so any hydronic system would freeze.
Just wondering.
JK
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Posted by Toller on March 1, 2007, 10:44 am
> Hello,
>
> I have a small cottage (construction in progress) where living during
> the weekends; there is one room, 16' x 24' with a cathedral ceiling,
> 16' high at the top.
I frankly don't know anything about HVAC, but I have some experiences that
might help you. I am assuming you will not be heating it when you are not
there. If you are rich enough to do that, then you can just put in all the
heaters you want and not worry about it.
Two weeks ago we went away for the weekend and I turned the heat down to 55.
It was about 25 out.
It took 8 hours to get back to 72. Unless your heating is way oversized,
you won't have it warm until you are ready to leave.
My cottage is about the same size as yours, but the ceiling peaks at 12'.
The insulation is not good, so maybe they are about equal. I can get it
about 25 degrees over outside temperature with my wood stove. With better
windows and insulation I am sure I could do better, but getting it actually
warm on a cold day would be a challenge for a wood stove.
And finally, my cottage takes about 3 hours to winterize for subfreezing
weather, and maybe an hour to bring back. That could be improved with
better design, but there is still alot to do. Make sure you know what you
are doing.
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Posted by Pop` on March 1, 2007, 12:32 pm
Chris wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have a small cottage (construction in progress) where living during
> the weekends; there is one room, 16' x 24' with a cathedral ceiling,
> 16' high at the top.
> Inside this, is an open (no walls) mezzanine (as bedroom) 16' x 12'.
> For heating I have installed a wood stove and a ceiling fan for air
> circulation.
> As a second option for heating (mainly during the night or when not
> in), I did install baseboards for heating this room with a total power
> of 4000 watts.
> The sizing formula for baseboards, I found from web, is:
> "Required power (in watts) for baseboards is calculated by multiplying
> the number of square feet in a given room by 10."
> Thus a 16 x 24 ft. room (380 sq. ft) will require 3,840 watts of power
> (380 x 10).
> I am using one programmable thermostat which supports 4000 watts.
> I am wondering if this is enough, considering there is a cathedral
> ceiling and living in areas where in winter is cold (Canada).
> If I have to add more heating elements, is it better to add portable
> heaters or another thermostat with new baseboards?
> How many watts should I add for heating elements?
>
> Thank you, Chris
There is a flaw in your calculations because they only account for square
footage of what? There has to be a volume associated with it so that the
calcs indicate the real amount of air to heat. The "10" is apparently the
default modifier for volume, but ... for what temperature rise?
If you're in a cool climate, not cold, then it might be barely enough but
it'll be incredibly slow to heat with. If the temps go below freezing and
especially far below, you'll hardly even know that heat source is working.
Your fan will only create cold drafts for several hours.
So, you need to look into the temperature "rise" you need (20, 40, 60
degrees, etc) that you need, plus calculate it on the actual volume of the
area to be heated.
Btu/hr is the "magic" number you're looking for if you want to do some
research.
I'll be honest with you, I would consider a mobil-home sized used forced air
furnace for this application, assuming you can get fuel oil to a tank for
it. Anything from 55,000 to say 85,000 btu output should suffice, you'll
have to size it, and you'll get a lot faster heat rise than with electric.
The fans in a forced air system also work to help clean the air of dust
etc.. If you can get hold of one from a trailer they're small in size and
easy to build into an alcove and meet code with. I'm just thinking of hte
cost of electricity to heat with vs oil or gas. It wouldn't even require a
lot of heating ducts for such an arrangement.
HTH
Pop`
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