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Posted by Robert11 on October 3, 2009, 7:14 pm
Hello,
Not to sure how to go about this, and would appreciate any thoughts.
Whatever I do, I want to be sure that it is "Code" compliant, fully.
Have a quite old smoke detector on ceiling. Doesn't work reliably
It's AC house wired presently, but I wish to replace it with a regular
battery powered one without any 110 V house wiring going to it.
The AC wires going to it just exit the ceiling thru a small hole.
No metal wiring box like you always see; just a exit hole for the wires thru
the ceiling. Other things on the circuit, so I can't just disable the
wiring run at the service box.
Any new smoke detector I put up will be flush against the ceiling, and I am
pretty sure there wouldn't be enough room in it's base for me to terminate
the wires in, in place of a metal box.
I can of course put a wire-nut on the wire ends, tape it to be even more
sure, and push them back thru the hole.
But I imagine that this would not be Code compliant.
True ?
If I do have to go to a metal box, what kind do I try to find that would
enable me to just cut a somewhat larger hole and install it ?
There are no wooden ceiling joists or structure by the hole to fasten the
box to. So, the kind of boxes that have that adj. bar that attaches to two
ceiling joists does not seem appropriate.
Any new enlarged hole I cut I would, of course, like it to be minimal.
So, how would I anchor the typical metal octagonal wiring box ?
Is there perhaps another type that is made for the problem I have tried to
outline ? Sure would be great if so. If there is, who makes and what is it
called, please ?
Any thoughts on how to go about this would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob
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Posted by Nate Nagel on October 3, 2009, 7:34 pm
Robert11 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Not to sure how to go about this, and would appreciate any thoughts.
>
> Whatever I do, I want to be sure that it is "Code" compliant, fully.
>
> Have a quite old smoke detector on ceiling. Doesn't work reliably
>
> It's AC house wired presently, but I wish to replace it with a regular
> battery powered one without any 110 V house wiring going to it.
>
> The AC wires going to it just exit the ceiling thru a small hole.
> No metal wiring box like you always see; just a exit hole for the wires thru
> the ceiling. Other things on the circuit, so I can't just disable the
> wiring run at the service box.
>
> Any new smoke detector I put up will be flush against the ceiling, and I am
> pretty sure there wouldn't be enough room in it's base for me to terminate
> the wires in, in place of a metal box.
>
> I can of course put a wire-nut on the wire ends, tape it to be even more
> sure, and push them back thru the hole.
> But I imagine that this would not be Code compliant.
> True ?
>
> If I do have to go to a metal box, what kind do I try to find that would
> enable me to just cut a somewhat larger hole and install it ?
>
> There are no wooden ceiling joists or structure by the hole to fasten the
> box to. So, the kind of boxes that have that adj. bar that attaches to two
> ceiling joists does not seem appropriate.
>
> Any new enlarged hole I cut I would, of course, like it to be minimal.
>
> So, how would I anchor the typical metal octagonal wiring box ?
>
> Is there perhaps another type that is made for the problem I have tried to
> outline ? Sure would be great if so. If there is, who makes and what is it
> called, please ?
>
> Any thoughts on how to go about this would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
>
If your house is newer than a certain age, code requires 120VAC smoke
detectors. All 120VAC devices require a box. So you need to install a
box. There are old work boxes both metal and plastic suitable for your
situation, although I don't understand the comment about "no wooden
ceiling joists or structure" - there'd have to be, I'd think?
But anyway, just go down to your local building supply and ask for an
old work ceiling box and they should be able to hook you up. There's
kinds with expandable supports that dig into the rafters, and also
there's kinds with ears that just hold the box to the plaster or drywall
ceiling itself. Either will be fine, use whichever is easier for you.
Oh, and if you ever run into the knucklehead that installed your old
smoke detector, give him a dope slap for me.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
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Posted by Colbyt on October 3, 2009, 7:36 pm
> Hello,
> Not to sure how to go about this, and would appreciate any thoughts.
> Whatever I do, I want to be sure that it is "Code" compliant, fully.
> Have a quite old smoke detector on ceiling. Doesn't work reliably
> It's AC house wired presently, but I wish to replace it with a regular
> battery powered one without any 110 V house wiring going to it.
> The AC wires going to it just exit the ceiling thru a small hole.
> No metal wiring box like you always see; just a exit hole for the wires
> thru the ceiling. Other things on the circuit, so I can't just disable
> the wiring run at the service box.
> Any new smoke detector I put up will be flush against the ceiling, and I
> am pretty sure there wouldn't be enough room in it's base for me to
> terminate the wires in, in place of a metal box.
> I can of course put a wire-nut on the wire ends, tape it to be even more
> sure, and push them back thru the hole.
> But I imagine that this would not be Code compliant.
> True ?
> If I do have to go to a metal box, what kind do I try to find that would
> enable me to just cut a somewhat larger hole and install it ?
> There are no wooden ceiling joists or structure by the hole to fasten the
> box to. So, the kind of boxes that have that adj. bar that attaches to
> two ceiling joists does not seem appropriate.
> Any new enlarged hole I cut I would, of course, like it to be minimal.
> So, how would I anchor the typical metal octagonal wiring box ?
> Is there perhaps another type that is made for the problem I have tried to
> outline ? Sure would be great if so. If there is, who makes and what is
> it called, please ?
> Any thoughts on how to go about this would be much appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Bob
I am fairly sure AC powered with battery back-up is the minimum requirement
anywhere smokes are required and for sure all insurance companies are
looking for that.
To correct the wiring problem you need to use an "old work" box. Plastic is
the norm now. Those can be bought at the BORG in round or 3x2 rectangles.
Either will work with a smoke as the base plate will attach to and fully
cover either. Rectangles are a bit easier to cut.
These boxes have wings that grip the back of the wall board. You will
quickly grasp the concept when you see one.
Ask any questions. Someone will answer them.
--
Colbyt
Please come visit www.househomerepair.com
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Posted by John Grabowski on October 3, 2009, 8:19 pm
> Hello,
> Not to sure how to go about this, and would appreciate any thoughts.
> Whatever I do, I want to be sure that it is "Code" compliant, fully.
> Have a quite old smoke detector on ceiling. Doesn't work reliably
> It's AC house wired presently, but I wish to replace it with a regular
> battery powered one without any 110 V house wiring going to it.
> The AC wires going to it just exit the ceiling thru a small hole.
> No metal wiring box like you always see; just a exit hole for the wires
> thru the ceiling. Other things on the circuit, so I can't just disable
> the wiring run at the service box.
> Any new smoke detector I put up will be flush against the ceiling, and I
> am pretty sure there wouldn't be enough room in it's base for me to
> terminate the wires in, in place of a metal box.
> I can of course put a wire-nut on the wire ends, tape it to be even more
> sure, and push them back thru the hole.
> But I imagine that this would not be Code compliant.
> True ?
> If I do have to go to a metal box, what kind do I try to find that would
> enable me to just cut a somewhat larger hole and install it ?
> There are no wooden ceiling joists or structure by the hole to fasten the
> box to. So, the kind of boxes that have that adj. bar that attaches to
> two ceiling joists does not seem appropriate.
> Any new enlarged hole I cut I would, of course, like it to be minimal.
> So, how would I anchor the typical metal octagonal wiring box ?
> Is there perhaps another type that is made for the problem I have tried to
> outline ? Sure would be great if so. If there is, who makes and what is
> it called, please ?
> Any thoughts on how to go about this would be much appreciated.
*In NJ 120 volt smoke alarms with battery backup are required for bedroom
areas and one in the basement. The battery backup requirement is new due to
code adaptation of AFI circuit breakers recently.
You could can use a fan brace and box. The adjustable brace fits through a
four inch hole. If you have a lot of wires get one with a deep octagonal
box. There is also a plastic old work round box which will work on drywall.
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Posted by George on October 3, 2009, 8:30 pm
Robert11 wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Not to sure how to go about this, and would appreciate any thoughts.
>
> Whatever I do, I want to be sure that it is "Code" compliant, fully.
>
> Have a quite old smoke detector on ceiling. Doesn't work reliably
>
> It's AC house wired presently, but I wish to replace it with a regular
> battery powered one without any 110 V house wiring going to it.
Much better to replace it with a line powered unit that has a backup
battery.
>
> The AC wires going to it just exit the ceiling thru a small hole.
> No metal wiring box like you always see; just a exit hole for the wires thru
> the ceiling. Other things on the circuit, so I can't just disable the
> wiring run at the service box.
>
> Any new smoke detector I put up will be flush against the ceiling, and I am
> pretty sure there wouldn't be enough room in it's base for me to terminate
> the wires in, in place of a metal box.
>
Cut in a box which is the way your current detector should have been
installed and then connect the replacement detector.
> I can of course put a wire-nut on the wire ends, tape it to be even more
> sure, and push them back thru the hole.
> But I imagine that this would not be Code compliant.
> True ?
>
> If I do have to go to a metal box, what kind do I try to find that would
> enable me to just cut a somewhat larger hole and install it ?
>
> There are no wooden ceiling joists or structure by the hole to fasten the
> box to. So, the kind of boxes that have that adj. bar that attaches to two
> ceiling joists does not seem appropriate.
>
> Any new enlarged hole I cut I would, of course, like it to be minimal.
>
> So, how would I anchor the typical metal octagonal wiring box ?
>
> Is there perhaps another type that is made for the problem I have tried to
> outline ? Sure would be great if so. If there is, who makes and what is it
> called, please ?
>
> Any thoughts on how to go about this would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
>
>
>
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>
> Not to sure how to go about this, and would appreciate any thoughts.
>
> Whatever I do, I want to be sure that it is "Code" compliant, fully.
>
> Have a quite old smoke detector on ceiling. Doesn't work reliably
>
> It's AC house wired presently, but I wish to replace it with a regular
> battery powered one without any 110 V house wiring going to it.
>
> The AC wires going to it just exit the ceiling thru a small hole.
> No metal wiring box like you always see; just a exit hole for the wires thru
> the ceiling. Other things on the circuit, so I can't just disable the
> wiring run at the service box.
>
> Any new smoke detector I put up will be flush against the ceiling, and I am
> pretty sure there wouldn't be enough room in it's base for me to terminate
> the wires in, in place of a metal box.
>
> I can of course put a wire-nut on the wire ends, tape it to be even more
> sure, and push them back thru the hole.
> But I imagine that this would not be Code compliant.
> True ?
>
> If I do have to go to a metal box, what kind do I try to find that would
> enable me to just cut a somewhat larger hole and install it ?
>
> There are no wooden ceiling joists or structure by the hole to fasten the
> box to. So, the kind of boxes that have that adj. bar that attaches to two
> ceiling joists does not seem appropriate.
>
> Any new enlarged hole I cut I would, of course, like it to be minimal.
>
> So, how would I anchor the typical metal octagonal wiring box ?
>
> Is there perhaps another type that is made for the problem I have tried to
> outline ? Sure would be great if so. If there is, who makes and what is it
> called, please ?
>
> Any thoughts on how to go about this would be much appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
>