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How to upgrade outlets and switches

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How to upgrade outlets and switches Richard M. Utter 05-15-2006
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Posted by Richard M. Utter on May 15, 2006, 3:03 pm
I'm preparing my mother's home for sale. It was built about 1953 and the
wiring lacks the usual third ground conductor. To make it possible to
conveniently plug in stoves, refrigerators, and power tools with
three-wire cords, my father simply replaced two-wire outlets with
three-wire ones, leaving their ground lugs disconnected.

At this point, every switch and outlet in the house is worn out,
paint-covered, or installed up-side-down, so I plan to replace all of
them. I started out intending to turn the clock back and replace all the
outlets with two-wire ones, but it appears that I can't even buy them
any more. Certainly the local HD doesn't have any.

So the question is whether there's a proper way to connect a three-wire
outlet to antiquated two-wire cable?

Posted by PipeDown on May 15, 2006, 3:21 pm
Your simplest option is to put a GFCI receptacle in every location. It may
not sound cheap but the alternative is replacing the 2 wire cable with 3
wire cable. Not really practical unless you are already doing a gut and
remodel.

There should be a sticker that comes with the GFCI to alert users that the
plug is not really grounded. It does provide protection as it will trip if
any current flows into the ground tab.



> I'm preparing my mother's home for sale. It was built about 1953 and the
> wiring lacks the usual third ground conductor. To make it possible to
> conveniently plug in stoves, refrigerators, and power tools with
> three-wire cords, my father simply replaced two-wire outlets with
> three-wire ones, leaving their ground lugs disconnected.
>
> At this point, every switch and outlet in the house is worn out,
> paint-covered, or installed up-side-down, so I plan to replace all of
> them. I started out intending to turn the clock back and replace all the
> outlets with two-wire ones, but it appears that I can't even buy them any
> more. Certainly the local HD doesn't have any.
>
> So the question is whether there's a proper way to connect a three-wire
> outlet to antiquated two-wire cable?



Posted by Pop on May 15, 2006, 3:41 pm
That is pretty reasonable advice with one exception: Where the
3-wire is actually needed, such as for computers, stereos, etc..

Further: You don't need a GFCI at every location: You only need
one per circuit, placed in the right location, meaning the
receptacle which physically connects to the fuse/breaker box.
Then that receptacle and all those beyond on the same circuit are
protected.
You can also buy ckt brkrs with gfci functionality, along with
arc suppression and detection. IMO that would be the most
desired from a new buyer perspective. Don't be too surprised if
the lack of a third wire hurts some prospects, though.
If you're in doubt about anything, it's easy to just call your
local code enforcement office to get details: Every locations
adds its own laws and rules to the mix.

Pop


> Your simplest option is to put a GFCI receptacle in every
> location. It may not sound cheap but the alternative is
> replacing the 2 wire cable with 3 wire cable. Not really
> practical unless you are already doing a gut and remodel.
>
> There should be a sticker that comes with the GFCI to alert
> users that the plug is not really grounded. It does provide
> protection as it will trip if any current flows into the ground
> tab.
>
>
>
>> I'm preparing my mother's home for sale. It was built about
>> 1953 and the wiring lacks the usual third ground conductor. To
>> make it possible to conveniently plug in stoves,
>> refrigerators, and power tools with three-wire cords, my
>> father simply replaced two-wire outlets with three-wire ones,
>> leaving their ground lugs disconnected.
>>
>> At this point, every switch and outlet in the house is worn
>> out, paint-covered, or installed up-side-down, so I plan to
>> replace all of them. I started out intending to turn the clock
>> back and replace all the outlets with two-wire ones, but it
>> appears that I can't even buy them any more. Certainly the
>> local HD doesn't have any.
>>
>> So the question is whether there's a proper way to connect a
>> three-wire outlet to antiquated two-wire cable?
>
>



Posted by PipeDown on May 15, 2006, 4:25 pm
Use of a single GFCI or a GFCI breaker does not solve the problem of not
having a ground wire in the first place. If you use a GFCI receptacle and
connect several receptacles downsteam, you will get some GFCI protection but
not from current into ground (the ground tab on those will still be open).
Only at the GFCI receptacle itself do you get virtual safety ground
protection.




> That is pretty reasonable advice with one exception: Where the 3-wire is
> actually needed, such as for computers, stereos, etc..
>
> Further: You don't need a GFCI at every location: You only need one per
> circuit, placed in the right location, meaning the receptacle which
> physically connects to the fuse/breaker box. Then that receptacle and all
> those beyond on the same circuit are protected.
> You can also buy ckt brkrs with gfci functionality, along with arc
> suppression and detection. IMO that would be the most desired from a new
> buyer perspective. Don't be too surprised if the lack of a third wire
> hurts some prospects, though.
> If you're in doubt about anything, it's easy to just call your local
> code enforcement office to get details: Every locations adds its own laws
> and rules to the mix.
>
> Pop
>
>
>> Your simplest option is to put a GFCI receptacle in every location. It
>> may not sound cheap but the alternative is replacing the 2 wire cable
>> with 3 wire cable. Not really practical unless you are already doing a
>> gut and remodel.
>>
>> There should be a sticker that comes with the GFCI to alert users that
>> the plug is not really grounded. It does provide protection as it will
>> trip if any current flows into the ground tab.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm preparing my mother's home for sale. It was built about 1953 and the
>>> wiring lacks the usual third ground conductor. To make it possible to
>>> conveniently plug in stoves, refrigerators, and power tools with
>>> three-wire cords, my father simply replaced two-wire outlets with
>>> three-wire ones, leaving their ground lugs disconnected.
>>>
>>> At this point, every switch and outlet in the house is worn out,
>>> paint-covered, or installed up-side-down, so I plan to replace all of
>>> them. I started out intending to turn the clock back and replace all the
>>> outlets with two-wire ones, but it appears that I can't even buy them
>>> any more. Certainly the local HD doesn't have any.
>>>
>>> So the question is whether there's a proper way to connect a three-wire
>>> outlet to antiquated two-wire cable?
>>
>>
>
>



Posted by Jeff Wisnia on May 15, 2006, 6:24 pm
PipeDown wrote:

> Use of a single GFCI or a GFCI breaker does not solve the problem of not
> having a ground wire in the first place. If you use a GFCI receptacle and
> connect several receptacles downsteam, you will get some GFCI protection but
> not from current into ground (the ground tab on those will still be open).
> Only at the GFCI receptacle itself do you get virtual safety ground
> protection.

I think I understand you. But just to be sure, are you saying that even
without a ground wire connected to it the first GFCI receptacle would
trip if an appliance plugged into it equipped with a three wire cord and
plug developed internal leakage between hot and ground (or on the
fancier GFCIs also between neutral and ground.), but that you don't get
that level of protection on the downstream ones?

I'd assume you wouldn't get that protection on the first receptical
either if there was no ground wire connected to it. I can't see where a
leakage current to ground would flow if there was no ground wire for it
to flow through.

If what you said assumed there WAS a ground wire to connect to the GFCI
receptical then I agree with your statement, but that's prolly not what
the OP has, unless he's lucky and the wall boxes are grounded, perhaps
via the bare ground wire used in some of the old BX cables.

<snipped>

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Life is like a sewer -- what you get out of it depends on what you put
into it."

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