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How to upgrade outlets and switches

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How to upgrade outlets and switches Richard M. Utter 05-15-2006
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Posted by Chris Lewis on May 18, 2006, 11:35 am
> > Now I doubt this 1953 house has AC with the quality control of HFAC,
> > but just making a point that AC is good, damn good when properly used,
> > and installed.
>
> I suspect there's rather more to HVAC than simply a "well Q/A'd AC".

phoo! HFAC. I couldn't find any specs for it online.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Posted by Tom The Great on May 18, 2006, 8:21 pm
On Thu, 18 May 2006 15:35:23 -0000, clewis@nortelnetworks.com (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

>> > Now I doubt this 1953 house has AC with the quality control of HFAC,
>> > but just making a point that AC is good, damn good when properly used,
>> > and installed.
>>
>> I suspect there's rather more to HVAC than simply a "well Q/A'd AC".
>
>phoo! HFAC. I couldn't find any specs for it online.


What I called HFAC is "Hospital Facility Armored Cable".

It's called different things, HCF AC, etc.

Just do a google search.

Enjoy,

tom




Posted by Tom The Great on May 16, 2006, 5:15 pm
On Tue, 16 May 2006 05:01:00 -0000, clewis@nortelnetworks.com (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

>
>> I'm fairly sure that GFCI breakers have a limit to how many downstream
>> outlets you're supposed to be able to feed with them. (four, maybe?)
>
>I've not seen any that hint at such a thing in their instructions.
>There's no reason I can think of where that would make any sort
>of sense. They have to be rated for 20A passthru, otherwise,
>you couldn't use them at all. The detection circuitry has no way
>of knowing (or caring) about how many outlets are downstream of it.
>
>If they somehow did have such a restriction, I suspect that
>they'd fail UL/CSA approvals.
>
>But who knows, perhaps some manufacturer does have that in their
>instructions to try to trick you to buying more GFCIs than you need.
>
>It _would_ make a certain amount of sense to limit the number of
>outlets beyond each GFCI in order to minimize the number of outlets
>going dead when one trips. That's a useability issue, not a safety
>or operability one.
>
>> If I was going to live in the house, I'de replace all of them.
>
>I'd test 'em, and if they tripped properly, leave 'em alone.
>
>> Another thing to check is whether you've got armored metal cable
>> that's grounded, in which case, pigtailing the receptical ground
>> to the box may be enough to satisfy the house "inspector"s little
>> LED tester. (Whether that's safe or code compliant in your area
>> is another question.) My second-floor circuts are like that.
>
>While the NEC does permit cable sheath as a ground, the CEC
>hasn't for a long time, and I wouldn't recommend relying on
>it unless there was no other alternative. Old armor can
>get remarkably high resistances...

Very true abotu the high inductive resistance, why AC now comes with a
shorting wire. But if the AC is old, the wiring method should have
been per code when it was installed, so why not just pigtail the metal
boxes, if they exit.

Heck, I think the NEC allows for not pigtailes if you can establish a
ground off the yoke in contact with a grounded box. Not sure, since I
think the cost of ground screw and wire is cheap to ensure good ground
connection.

later,

tom @ www.Consolidated-Loans.info




Posted by Tom The Great on May 16, 2006, 5:12 pm

>
>>>I'm preparing my mother's home for sale. It was built about 1953 and the
>>> wiring lacks the usual third ground conductor. To make it possible to
>>>conveniently plug in stoves, refrigerators, and power tools with
>>>three-wire cords, my father simply replaced two-wire outlets with
>>>three-wire ones, leaving their ground lugs disconnected.
>>
>. . .
>
>>Per the NEC you can find the first outlet, and wire that with a GFCI,
>>and have it feed the downstream outlets. So the first(the GFCI) and
>>the downstream receptacles are ground fault protected. Just be sure
>>the follow the rules, and mark each outlet with the normal "GFCI
>>protected" and "No Equipment Ground" stickers.
>. . .
>>>At this point, every switch and outlet in the house is worn out,
>>>paint-covered, or installed up-side-down, so I plan to replace all of
>>>them. I started out intending to turn the clock back and replace all the
>
>
>I'm fairly sure that GFCI breakers have a limit to how many downstream
>outlets you're supposed to be able to feed with them. (four, maybe?)
>If I was going to live in the house, I'de replace all of them. Since
>OP is preparing the house for sale, the cheapest option is probably
>to replace the breaker(s). Anyone who cares is going to be unhappy
>about the lack of ground-wire, using breakers instead of GFCIs isn't
>going to make matters worse.

I believe, gotta look it up, if you don't use gfci receptalces, you
are stuck with using two prong receptalces.



>
>Another thing to check is whether you've got armored metal cable
>that's grounded, in which case, pigtailing the receptical ground
>to the box may be enough to satisfy the house "inspector"s little
>LED tester. (Whether that's safe or code compliant in your area
>is another question.) My second-floor circuts are like that.
>
>


later,

tom @ www.MedJobSite.com


Posted by Chris Lewis on May 16, 2006, 11:55 pm

> I believe, gotta look it up, if you don't use gfci receptalces, you
> are stuck with using two prong receptalces.

The NEC does not permit 3 prong outlets on ground-less circuits
_unless_ they're downstream of a GFCI (and labeled as such).

The CEC used to permit you to plug the third prong with silicone
goop, but not for some time.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

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