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I need to lift a barn with jacks maradcliff 08-17-2005
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Posted by on August 17, 2005, 2:09 am


Yes, this is wayyyyy overboard for many of you, but us farmers are
used to doing things like this. However, this one is a little
overwhelming even to me. I have a barn that is a steel barn with wood
framing. It's roughly 70 feet long and 30 feet wide. The bottom is
where animals used to go, and was originally rock walls. The top is a
heavily built wooden frame with tin on the sides and roof.

The problem is that the rock foundation is gone on one side and one
end. All that is holding it up are the oak 6x6 posts in the center,
but the corner where the both missing walls are, settled about 30
inches and was literally floating. When I bought this farm, one of
the first things I did was shove a few massive rocks under that corner
to keep it from settling more. Today I decided to see if I could lift
it. Using a common Hi Lift tractor jack, I was able to raise that
corner about 15 inches, or half the height it needs to be raised to
get back to normal. Lifting that 15" not only had my eyes bulging out
to operate the jack, but caused the jack to bend. However, I have it
stabalized now, using a stack of concrete blocks under that corner.

My plan is to get it close to normal height and put railroad timbers
(ties) on end under the corner, and at 12 foot spacing along the wall.
Because there is still part of the old rock foundation below the
ground level, I can not dig them into the ground, but instead plan to
use 45 deg. braces on the top where the post meets the barn frame,
then pour concrete around the post bases, and embed the cement into
the old rock. Once it's close to normal height, I can then run
horizontal treated 2X8's from post to post. I dont plan to get this
barn exactly level, but with some shims, (and some luck) it should be
close.

I am not sure what I will do once it's all back on posts. I have
considered concrete block, re-using the old rocks with mortar, pouring
concrete walls, or just using treated wood for the underground (and
above ground, since it's built into a hill, walls). At this point,
the wood seems the easiest.

Either way, I am posting this because I need more jack power. I have
a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
under the jack for another 4". The tractor jack is not strong enough
and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.

Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
of thing?
I need POWER, and lots of it, because my tractor loader would not even
lift it, and I can easily life a one ton round bale with it.

The other question is how much does something like this actually
weigh? It's all Oak framed, an covered with steel barn siding. The
sill plate as well as the floor joists are 2x8 (actual size, rough cut
timbers). There is also a bad section in the sill plate (about 8
feet) where I will have to attach a large timber when I lift at that
point. I should note that lifting this will be a slow process and I
wont be lifting the whole building at one time. The barn will flex as
I lift at different points, and I'll be doing most of the lifting from
the outside until it is stabalized. Then I will work on the posts
under the building, which appear strong but some of the support beams
have dropped off the outer walls and are suspended in the air, only
jammed under those posts.

Mark


Posted by Harry K on August 17, 2005, 6:03 am



maradcliff@UNLISTED.com wrote:
> Yes, this is wayyyyy overboard for many of you, but us farmers are
> used to doing things like this. However, this one is a little
> overwhelming even to me. I have a barn that is a steel barn with wood
> framing. It's roughly 70 feet long and 30 feet wide. The bottom is
> where animals used to go, and was originally rock walls. The top is a
> heavily built wooden frame with tin on the sides and roof.
>
> The problem is that the rock foundation is gone on one side and one
> end. All that is holding it up are the oak 6x6 posts in the center,
> but the corner where the both missing walls are, settled about 30
> inches and was literally floating. When I bought this farm, one of
> the first things I did was shove a few massive rocks under that corner
> to keep it from settling more. Today I decided to see if I could lift
> it. Using a common Hi Lift tractor jack, I was able to raise that
> corner about 15 inches, or half the height it needs to be raised to
> get back to normal. Lifting that 15" not only had my eyes bulging out
> to operate the jack, but caused the jack to bend. However, I have it
> stabalized now, using a stack of concrete blocks under that corner.
>
> My plan is to get it close to normal height and put railroad timbers
> (ties) on end under the corner, and at 12 foot spacing along the wall.
> Because there is still part of the old rock foundation below the
> ground level, I can not dig them into the ground, but instead plan to
> use 45 deg. braces on the top where the post meets the barn frame,
> then pour concrete around the post bases, and embed the cement into
> the old rock. Once it's close to normal height, I can then run
> horizontal treated 2X8's from post to post. I dont plan to get this
> barn exactly level, but with some shims, (and some luck) it should be
> close.
>
> I am not sure what I will do once it's all back on posts. I have
> considered concrete block, re-using the old rocks with mortar, pouring
> concrete walls, or just using treated wood for the underground (and
> above ground, since it's built into a hill, walls). At this point,
> the wood seems the easiest.
>
> Either way, I am posting this because I need more jack power. I have
> a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
> believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
> under the jack for another 4". The tractor jack is not strong enough
> and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
> some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
> bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
> of thing?
> I need POWER, and lots of it, because my tractor loader would not even
> lift it, and I can easily life a one ton round bale with it.
>
> The other question is how much does something like this actually
> weigh? It's all Oak framed, an covered with steel barn siding. The
> sill plate as well as the floor joists are 2x8 (actual size, rough cut
> timbers). There is also a bad section in the sill plate (about 8
> feet) where I will have to attach a large timber when I lift at that
> point. I should note that lifting this will be a slow process and I
> wont be lifting the whole building at one time. The barn will flex as
> I lift at different points, and I'll be doing most of the lifting from
> the outside until it is stabalized. Then I will work on the posts
> under the building, which appear strong but some of the support beams
> have dropped off the outer walls and are suspended in the air, only
> jammed under those posts.
>
> Mark

You do seem to know what you are doing and I hope you are aware of
safety. The bottle jacks are the only solution I know of but you need
more than one of them plus a lot of dunnage for blocking as you go.

Your project sounds much more intimidating (safety wise) than I would
care to tackle and I have done some strange things in my long life.

Harry K



Posted by Duane Bozarth on August 17, 2005, 8:19 am


maradcliff@UNLISTED.com wrote:
>
....
> ...I have a barn that is a steel barn with wood
> framing. It's roughly 70 feet long and 30 feet wide. The bottom is
> where animals used to go, and was originally rock walls. The top is a
> heavily built wooden frame with tin on the sides and roof.

That's roughly same size as one grandad built--38x66. It's frame
construction, however on poured foundation w/ wood siding and shingle
(now shake) roof...
>
> The problem is that the rock foundation is gone on one side and one
> end. All that is holding it up are the oak 6x6 posts in the center,
> but the corner where the both missing walls are, settled about 30
> inches and was literally floating. When I bought this farm, one of
> the first things I did was shove a few massive rocks under that corner
> to keep it from settling more. Today I decided to see if I could lift
> it. Using a common Hi Lift tractor jack, I was able to raise that
> corner about 15 inches, or half the height it needs to be raised to
> get back to normal. Lifting that 15" not only had my eyes bulging out
> to operate the jack, but caused the jack to bend. However, I have it
> stabalized now, using a stack of concrete blocks under that corner.

Damn lucky you didn't kill yourself w/ that make-do contraption...

Raised ours enough to replace sill plate on one end and half of the
length using three 20-T bottle jacks and several 4x6 to spread load
across several rafters.

....

> Either way, I am posting this because I need more jack power. I have
> a 20 ton bottle jack, but those things lift so little at a time. I
> believe I can only lift 4 inches before I have to put more blocking
> under the jack for another 4". The tractor jack is not strong enough
> and neither am I to lift any higher with that jack. I do also have
> some of those old screw jacks, but those things are harder to use than
> bottle jacks, but will come in handy for temporary posts.
>
> Does anyone have any idea what other jacks are available for this sort
> of thing?...

There are long-lift versions of bottle jacks that will do the job
although you will need several lifts even there. But, they're expensive
and I would be very reluctant to trust the really cheap Chinese imports
for this kind of work where my life is at stake.

If I had to make such a high lift, I think I'd call the guys local here
who do house moving and borrow/rent a couple of lifts from them as it
will be pretty pricey to find the capacity and the length I'm thinking.

As for how much you're trying to lift, would need a better picture more
data to actually guess, but probably not more than about 10T I'd guess
in a given lift.

My recommendation is to go slow and steady rather than try to get the
whole thing at one go. It's possibly going to get more unstable as you
get higher owing to the long-term "set" the building has taken over the
years. Whatever you do, be careful--I'm amazed you didn't have a
disaster already w/ the over-stressing of the jack you already did.


Posted by John Willis on August 17, 2005, 8:54 am


On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 02:09:21 -0500, maradcliff@UNLISTED.com scribbled
this interesting note:

>Yes, this is wayyyyy overboard for many of you, but us farmers are
>used to doing things like this. However, this one is a little
>overwhelming even to me. I have a barn that is a steel barn with wood
>framing. It's roughly 70 feet long and 30 feet wide. The bottom is
>where animals used to go, and was originally rock walls. The top is a
>heavily built wooden frame with tin on the sides and roof.
>

Mechanical railroad jacks do a fine job of this. The amount of lift
isn't all that much (six or eight inches at most) but the ones we have
are 30 ton jacks, mechanical, and can easily lift a house when
shimming a foundation, so your barn would be easy. The hard part in
this project, as you already know, is deciding how to spread the load
correctly so the structure stays stable and safe to work around.

Good luck.


--
John Willis
jdwillis12357@airmail.net
(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)


Posted by kevin on August 17, 2005, 7:36 am


First off -- good luck.

You want "power", but are complaining about the slowness and small lift
height of your jacks. Those two facts are related, of course -- if it
went faster, you'd have less power. Laws of physics and all... But
renting 20T bottle jacks should be cheap.

I would be real hesitant to use railroad ties for anything in this
project, other than laid flat on the ground for a temporary base.
Especially if they are old, used, or weathered. Remember, these things
are designed to lay flat to take a load, not raised on end. Loaded
end-wise, they could split, splinter, or collapse. Use steel screw-type
columns, or decent wood 6x6 posts. Or better yet, use a 3'x3' stack of
4x4 lumber (see below).

There are some other things being neglected. Supposing you do get the
whole barn up (30''!) in the air, supported on lally columns, or
whatever. Just the slightest wind will tip your whole barn over. You
need horizontal (diagonal) bracing, and a lot of it.

The way a house-mover does it is to build several stacks of 4x4 or 6x6
lumber -- in the corners, along the walls, in the middle, etc. Each
square stack has two pieces laid down about 3' apart. The next layer
has two pieces laid 3' apart across the first layer, and so on, in a
tall stack. Takes a lot of lumber to do, but will give decent
horizontal bracing. Especially if you nail some diagonal bracing to the
stack. As you raise, you put another layer on at each 4'', and every
few layers bind the whole thing together with another diagonal brace.

A house mover would probably use large steel beams on top of the
built-up columns, to support the floor. You could just use 6x6 beams,
or something, though.

Finally, for the walls, I would probably go with poured concrete walls
and footers. It seems by far the easiest, and probably the cheapest as
well. A concrete contractor might be able to tell if the remaining
stone footer is good enough, and just put up frames and pour on top of
that. It take little labor, and be done in a matter of days.



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