I understand why new furnaces are more efficient, but why AC?

Posted by mm on November 7, 2009, 7:16 pm

On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 00:12:08 -0600, lp1331@webtv.net (Lp1331 1p1331)
wrote:

>The first thing about newer high efficiency a/c is the coil size-- both
>condenser and evaporator. A new 2 ton unit is physically larger than
>most 5 ton units of yesteryear. Scroll compressors (that most but not
>all use) are somewhat more efficient than recips. The condenser coils
>themselves, as well the whole condenser fan assembly are designed-- with
>computer aid, not available years ago-- to get the optimum airflow with
>much lower horsepower fan motors than old units, as are the evaporators
>also.. All the motors-- condenser fan, blower, and compressor, have been
>"tweaked' to maximum efficiency. Most all higher SEER units use
>expansion valves instead of fixed orifice or capillay tube refrigerant
>flow control. A few 13 SEER units use flowrator (fixed orifice) , but
>pretty much all above 13 are TXV. Most all 16 + SEER units are two
>stage, some even having two compressors. Just as with fuel mileage on
>cars, the manufacurers have gotten all the easy gains in efficiency they
>are going to get. Barring some breakthrough invention, future efficiency
>gains will be small and costly. HTH Larry

Thanks and thanks to all of you.

Posted by terry on November 6, 2009, 2:08 am

On Nov 6, 1:31=A0am, gfretw...@aol.com wrote:

> In spite of all of this new freon in the world. the ozone hole that
> everyone had their panties in a wad over, shrunk.

.
Because the better organized and more responsible countries of the
world took measures to reduce the release of the older style
refrigerants into the atmosphere and/or legislated the use of less
polluting (although possibly less effective?) ones for new
production.

It does kinda prove two things, a) Humans activity can/does affect the
planets environment. b) Measures can be taken to change activities
that pollute. Somewhat encouraging actually if our politicians would
stop squabbling and pointing at each other and actually act instead of
worrying where their next campaign contribution will come from!

In Canada, for example, those in the refrigeration industry and
maintenance business have operated under some very strict measures.
But have visited gulf countries in the Middle East where, along with a
booming economy based almost entirely on the production of oil and
gas, there were few if any refrigeration controls. R22 could be bought
over the counter and anyone working on auto and home AC units,
considered almost essential on most vehicles and in all living units
over there, would routinely just purge refrigerant into the
atmosphere!

The situation is much the same as when the Europeans (particularly
Britain) with industrial economies based on several hundred years of
the use of coal finally decided that the health problems, disruption
of travel and the corrosion and other deterioration caused by acid
rain and smog were too high. Today, in the London UK area for example
the use of coal has been just about banned for many past years.

In other words 'good-responsible' government. Just look at the mess
irresponsible (weak) governemnt has done in the financial-banking
industry!

Posted by mm on November 6, 2009, 3:08 am

On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 23:08:02 -0800 (PST), terry

>On Nov 6, 1:31 am, gfretw...@aol.com wrote:

>> In spite of all of this new freon in the world. the ozone hole that
>> everyone had their panties in a wad over, shrunk.

But this wasn't (just?) blamed on freon as I recall it. It was
chloro-fluoro-carbons, which were just about eliminated from use years
ago, weren't they, certainly in the high-consuming countries if not
everywhere.

>.
>Because the better organized and more responsible countries of the
>world took measures to reduce the release of the older style
>refrigerants into the atmosphere and/or legislated the use of less
>polluting (although possibly less effective?) ones for new
>production.
>It does kinda prove two things, a) Humans activity can/does affect the
>planets environment. b) Measures can be taken to change activities
>that pollute. Somewhat encouraging actually if our politicians would
>stop squabbling and pointing at each other and actually act instead of
>worrying where their next campaign contribution will come from!
>In Canada, for example, those in the refrigeration industry and
>maintenance business have operated under some very strict measures.
>But have visited gulf countries in the Middle East where, along with a
>booming economy based almost entirely on the production of oil and
>gas, there were few if any refrigeration controls. R22 could be bought
>over the counter and anyone working on auto and home AC units,
>considered almost essential on most vehicles and in all living units
>over there, would routinely just purge refrigerant into the
>atmosphere!
>The situation is much the same as when the Europeans (particularly
>Britain) with industrial economies based on several hundred years of
>the use of coal finally decided that the health problems, disruption
>of travel and the corrosion and other deterioration caused by acid
>rain and smog were too high. Today, in the London UK area for example
>the use of coal has been just about banned for many past years.
>In other words 'good-responsible' government. Just look at the mess
>irresponsible (weak) governemnt has done in the financial-banking
>industry!

And Lake Erie or large parts of it had little or no life in it until
steps were taken. I think there is also fishing around Manhattan
Island now, that was not possible a few years ago.

I don't mean Mr. Fretwell, but it seems to be a matter of religious
faith almost that the earth can't be ruined by people, and yet we've
seen parts of it get ruined. I don't see why they are sure the whole
earth couldn't be.

Posted by Eric on November 6, 2009, 7:51 am

> I don't mean Mr. Fretwell, but it seems to be a matter of religious
> faith almost that the earth can't be ruined by people, and yet we've
> seen parts of it get ruined. I don't see why they are sure the whole
> earth couldn't be.

Because it could mean they have to make some sort of personal sacrifice or
endure some kind of
hardship. Denial requires much less effort!

Eric Law

Posted by Eric on November 6, 2009, 7:49 am

> In spite of all of this new freon in the world. the ozone hole that
> everyone had their panties in a wad over, shrunk.

Ozone holes aren't caused by "Freon in the world", they're caused by Freon (CFCs
if you're
trademark-averse) in the atmosphere.

China / India / whoever go berserk making new A/C's, the Freon stays inside
them, everything's fine.
*Until* it gets let out... by the A/C developing a leak or intentional release.
Then the fun
starts... 10, 15, 20 years from now.

Eric Law

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I understand why new furnaces are more efficient, but why AC? - Page 2