I understand why new furnaces are more efficient, but why AC?

Posted by mm on November 6, 2009, 10:57 am

>> In spite of all of this new freon in the world. the ozone hole that
>> everyone had their panties in a wad over, shrunk.

>Ozone holes aren't caused by "Freon in the world", they're caused by Freon

(CFCs if you're

>trademark-averse) in the atmosphere.

So Freon is a CFC. Oops. I checked and you're right. That makes my
answer to Terry, whicch included an answer to gfretwell, pretty
stupid.

>China / India / whoever go berserk making new A/C's, the Freon stays inside

them, everything's fine.

>*Until* it gets let out... by the A/C developing a leak or intentional release.

Then the fun

>starts... 10, 15, 20 years from now.
>Eric Law

Posted by on November 6, 2009, 11:00 am

>> In spite of all of this new freon in the world. the ozone hole that
>> everyone had their panties in a wad over, shrunk.

>Ozone holes aren't caused by "Freon in the world", they're caused by Freon

(CFCs if you're

>trademark-averse) in the atmosphere.
>China / India / whoever go berserk making new A/C's, the Freon stays inside

them, everything's fine.

>*Until* it gets let out... by the A/C developing a leak or intentional release.

Then the fun

>starts... 10, 15, 20 years from now.
>Eric Law

The chinese have been "going berserk" making the billion R12
refrigerators they promised in the 70s. Are you saying every one of
them still has all the original refrigerant in them?
That still ignores the fact that all freon gets vented eventually. As
careful as you may be, the main reason most appliances get thrown away
is the freon is gone.
I also question how well we recycle. I know the fridge and the package
AC unit I had the county haul away were vented in the street in front
of my house ... after I heard all about the "special pickup" and how
they had to do something special with the freon. They just grabbed the
package unit with a claw truck and banged it in the bed until the
freon blew out, then drove away. The guys cut the copper out of the
fridge.

Yeah I know, I should have called the cops. They would have taken a
report and that would be the end of it. In the end it would be my word
against the county about whether gas really came out.

Posted by Eric on November 6, 2009, 12:39 pm

> The chinese have been "going berserk" making the billion R12
> refrigerators they promised in the 70s. Are you saying every one of
> them still has all the original refrigerant in them?
> That still ignores the fact that all freon gets vented eventually. As
> careful as you may be, the main reason most appliances get thrown away
> is the freon is gone.

I'm not sure about that, although I'd agree it often escapes eventually.
Especially in the case of
car A/Cs, where leakage is just about guaranteed as the car ages.

On the other hand, when I was a kid I used to enjoy bringing window A/Cs home
from the dump and
seeing if I could make them work. Of those, I'd say maybe 1/3 had random
electrical problems that
were easily fixed, and almost all the remainder had seized compressors or fans
(or both). Think I
only ever saw one where the refrigerant had escaped.

> I also question how well we recycle. I know the fridge and the package
> AC unit I had the county haul away were vented in the street in front
> of my house ... after I heard all about the "special pickup" and how
> they had to do something special with the freon. They just grabbed the
> package unit with a claw truck and banged it in the bed until the
> freon blew out, then drove away. The guys cut the copper out of the
> fridge.

That's really sad. I always suspected that happened some of the time, but I'd
never heard a
firsthand account before.

Eric Law

Posted by dpb on November 5, 2009, 9:07 pm

mm wrote:
...

> But why are new AC's more efficient. ...

Because they use better more efficient compressors, etc., to be able to
produce more useful work from the same input energy.

That's what engineers are for... :)

--

Posted by JRStern on November 5, 2009, 9:12 pm

wrote:

>I think I understand why new furnaces are more efficient, but why AC?

Technically, I don't know. But window ACs, and even refrigerators,
are a lot more efficient now, too. Could just be the insulation on
the fridge, but just better engineering of blowers and fins and stuff
can help, too. Just electric motors that don't surge but have
electronics driving them, I think, maybe venting motor heat outside
instead of inside, etc.

J.

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I understand why new furnaces are more efficient, but why AC? - Page 3