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Posted by Tony on November 2, 2009, 1:03 pm
Part of my garage was going to be below grade so to make things easy, we
did the whole 1st floor block. Now I'm really regretting it due to high
heating and cooling costs. My original plans were to stucco the outside
of the block. It looks like 10 times the work and a lot more money to
put 1/2" or 3/4" foam panels, then wire lath, then stucco. Besides the
obvious I'd have to tear out and redo 3 windows, one door, and do
something up top were the stucco would now meet the vinyl soffit to
allow room for the foam panels. I know the foam panels aren't the best
insulation, but it would triple or quadruple the current r-value of 8"
block (about 1.11 r-value).
My other choices of course include framing and insulation the inside of
the block walls. Or maybe the foam panels outside with something else
besides stucco covering it? I suppose it doesn't have to look as nice
as I had hoped since only the front with 2 garage doors will really
show. With the garage doors covering most of the square footage of the
front wall, I could still just stucco that part right over the block.
What about not framing out the inside, gluing 1" foam on the inside and
cover it with drywall. But screwing drywall to block doesn't sound like
fun? What if the drywall was glued onto the foam panels which is also
glued to the block, and just had a few screws to hold until the glue set
up. I'm picturing blue screws with fender washers, not a pretty sight,
but it is just a garage/workshop.
Open to all... well, MOST suggestions.
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Posted by on November 2, 2009, 1:56 pm
wrote:
>Part of my garage was going to be below grade so to make things easy, we
>did the whole 1st floor block. Now I'm really regretting it due to high
>heating and cooling costs. My original plans were to stucco the outside
>of the block. It looks like 10 times the work and a lot more money to
>put 1/2" or 3/4" foam panels, then wire lath, then stucco. Besides the
>obvious I'd have to tear out and redo 3 windows, one door, and do
>something up top were the stucco would now meet the vinyl soffit to
>allow room for the foam panels. I know the foam panels aren't the best
>insulation, but it would triple or quadruple the current r-value of 8"
>block (about 1.11 r-value).
>My other choices of course include framing and insulation the inside of
>the block walls. Or maybe the foam panels outside with something else
>besides stucco covering it? I suppose it doesn't have to look as nice
>as I had hoped since only the front with 2 garage doors will really
>show. With the garage doors covering most of the square footage of the
>front wall, I could still just stucco that part right over the block.
>What about not framing out the inside, gluing 1" foam on the inside and
>cover it with drywall. But screwing drywall to block doesn't sound like
>fun? What if the drywall was glued onto the foam panels which is also
>glued to the block, and just had a few screws to hold until the glue set
>up. I'm picturing blue screws with fender washers, not a pretty sight,
>but it is just a garage/workshop.
>Open to all... well, MOST suggestions.
I imagine you could glue it all up. Do the foam first, when that has
cured, do the drywall. If you used contact cement on the drywall, you
might not even need the tapcons and fender washers. Even with regular
construction adhesive you could take them out after it cured and mud
the holes when you were taping the joints.
Just be sure you get the appropriate box extension rings for your
electrical boxes and you might need to pigtail on longer wires. That
is easier to do before you start doing the foam.
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Posted by Joe on November 2, 2009, 1:56 pm
> Part of my garage was going to be below grade so to make things easy, we
> did the whole 1st floor block. =A0Now I'm really regretting it due to hig=
h
> heating and cooling costs. =A0My original plans were to stucco the outsid=
e
> of the block. =A0It looks like 10 times the work and a lot more money to
> put 1/2" or 3/4" foam panels, then wire lath, then stucco. =A0Besides the
> obvious I'd have to tear out and redo 3 windows, one door, and do
> something up top were the stucco would now meet the vinyl soffit to
> allow room for the foam panels. =A0I know the foam panels aren't the best
> insulation, but it would triple or quadruple the current r-value of 8"
> block (about 1.11 r-value).
> My other choices of course include framing and insulation the inside of
> the block walls.
Really your most cost effective option.
Given your problem I would contact an Icynene installer and price out
2 x 4 framing with 3 1/2" foam filling behind drywall (INSIDE). The
way higher insulating value of such an installation will definitely
have a reasonable payback period compared with the limited options you
could do other wise. Your personal tax expert could also advise you of
energy tax credits available to sweeten the project cost.
Once the framing is in place you can add electrical outlets, water
lines, air lines, whatever, prior to the foam operation. From an
appearance standpoint this is also a win-win situation as no external
changes will be obvious to your tax assessor.
Forget about the attitude that it is 'only' a garage/workshop'. For
the hours you will spend there, there is no common sense reason not to
have heat and AC. My little 26' x 26' shop is heated/cooled and there
is no way I would do otherwise. Projects get done more quickly, tools
don't rust from excess humidity and list goes on. The shop is a major
utility at our house, like laundry. And a money saver to boot.
> snip<
Joe
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Posted by Oren on November 2, 2009, 4:44 pm
>> My other choices of course include framing and insulation the inside of
>> the block walls.
>Really your most cost effective option.
>Given your problem I would contact an Icynene installer and price out
>2 x 4 framing with 3 1/2" foam filling behind drywall (INSIDE). The
>way higher insulating value of such an installation will definitely
>have a reasonable payback period compared with the limited options you
>could do other wise. Your personal tax expert could also advise you of
>energy tax credits available to sweeten the project cost.
Inside " Icynene" was my first thought. DAGS images for walls.
Forget all the outside stucco stuff -
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Posted by Tony on November 3, 2009, 8:45 pm
Oren wrote:
>
>>> My other choices of course include framing and insulation the inside of
>>> the block walls.
>> Really your most cost effective option.
>> Given your problem I would contact an Icynene installer and price out
>> 2 x 4 framing with 3 1/2" foam filling behind drywall (INSIDE). The
>> way higher insulating value of such an installation will definitely
>> have a reasonable payback period compared with the limited options you
>> could do other wise. Your personal tax expert could also advise you of
>> energy tax credits available to sweeten the project cost.
>
> Inside " Icynene" was my first thought. DAGS images for walls.
I'm waiting for estimates
> Forget all the outside stucco stuff -
The only reason I considered outside stuff was from some posts here
regaurding different insuating technics for heavy mass wall. Forgetting
that idea and putting stucco directly on the block will be much easier
and less expensive then having to deal with wire lath.
Ah, I got some info now. For Icynene brand foam on 2x4 walls, with 1/2"
gap between the 2x4 wall and the block wall.
A) $1.35 square foot
B) $1.20 square foot
"A" was a guestimate from the secretary, she wasn't quite sure.
I talked shop with "B" and he also stated that they don't subtract
square feet for windows and doors except for the front where there is
more garage door square footage then wall square footage. The time they
spend taping windows and doors evens out with the extra labor. Sounds
like a good family owned and run business.
Does anyone here know what they charge in your area? Maybe other brands?
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>did the whole 1st floor block. Now I'm really regretting it due to high
>heating and cooling costs. My original plans were to stucco the outside
>of the block. It looks like 10 times the work and a lot more money to
>put 1/2" or 3/4" foam panels, then wire lath, then stucco. Besides the
>obvious I'd have to tear out and redo 3 windows, one door, and do
>something up top were the stucco would now meet the vinyl soffit to
>allow room for the foam panels. I know the foam panels aren't the best
>insulation, but it would triple or quadruple the current r-value of 8"
>block (about 1.11 r-value).
>My other choices of course include framing and insulation the inside of
>the block walls. Or maybe the foam panels outside with something else
>besides stucco covering it? I suppose it doesn't have to look as nice
>as I had hoped since only the front with 2 garage doors will really
>show. With the garage doors covering most of the square footage of the
>front wall, I could still just stucco that part right over the block.
>What about not framing out the inside, gluing 1" foam on the inside and
>cover it with drywall. But screwing drywall to block doesn't sound like
>fun? What if the drywall was glued onto the foam panels which is also
>glued to the block, and just had a few screws to hold until the glue set
>up. I'm picturing blue screws with fender washers, not a pretty sight,
>but it is just a garage/workshop.
>Open to all... well, MOST suggestions.