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Is my electrician dangerous? Please read

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Is my electrician dangerous? Please read Doobielicious 06-09-2008
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Posted by metspitzer on June 11, 2008, 1:47 pm

>>
>> Hot/neutral reversed would be the reading in this case.
>Oops my bad.
>
>Although it was not mentioned by the OP, a "respectable" electrician would
>reverse the hot/neutral in the outlets after reversing them in the panel.
>This way the faulty wiring would be undetectable.
>

It has already been mentioned, if an electrician switches the hot and
neutral, the biggest danger comes from lights. This causes the screw
shell of the lamp socket to be hot.

Posted by Doug Miller on June 11, 2008, 1:10 pm
> > inspectors that I have dealt with carry their own little plug-in
> > polarity/ground/GFI tester. If that was inserted into one of your
> > receptacles it would have immediately shown that a problem exists.
>
> The two problems the OP have cannot be detected by plug in tester.
>
http://www.wiebetech.com/images/products/HotPlug_Accessories/Outlet_Polarity_Tester.jpg
> If you look, you'd notice there is no indication for white/black wires
> switched

Yes there is: "Hot/Neu. Reverse"


Posted by DerbyDad03 on June 10, 2008, 9:28 am
On Jun 9, 10:04=A0pm, spamb...@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
stlink.ca> wrote:
> >OK. My electrician has 1 feed for one of my bedrooms and a couple plugs i=
n
> >hallway. The feed coming from my basement to my 2nd story has a short. Th=
ey
> >think the drywall or siding guys screwed into the wire. The circuit was
> >tripping so what he did was tied the neutral white wire into the breaker =
and
> >then tied the black into the neutral bar of my panel. All works plugs/lig=
hts
> >work. I caught this before and asked why he put the black on the neutral =
bar
> >and the neutral wire on the breaker. He said he had a short somewhere and=

> >did that to find where the problem is.
>
> [snip rest]
>
> Yes, the electrician *is* dangerous. Very dangerous. There are at least tw=
o
> serious safety hazards in what he did: First, by reversing hot and neutral=
,
> he's instantly put every switch on that circuit on the neutral side instea=
d of
> on the hot side where it belongs. Second, whatever caused the short to gro=
und
> is still there; it's just connected to the neutral instead of the hot --
> trouble is, the neutral carries current too, and so whatever's touching th=
at
> is providing an alternate path for that current to return to ground, possi=
bly
> through somebody.
>
> Explain this to the general contractor, and demand a *different* electrici=
an.
> Don't allow the first one back on your property, not even to try to fix hi=
s
> own screw-up -- no assurance that he's competent to do it right, and plent=
y of
> evidence that he's not.

re: Explain this to the general contractor, and demand a *different*
electrician.

I'm not arguing this point, in fact, I agree. I'm just noticing a bit
of a grey area here.

If the client should be dealing only with the GC, does the client
actually have the right/authority to decide which sub-contractors the
GC chooses? Wouldn't there need to be some sort of clause in the
contract to grant that authority?

Posted by RBM on June 9, 2008, 10:06 pm

> OK. My electrician has 1 feed for one of my bedrooms and a couple plugs in
> hallway. The feed coming from my basement to my 2nd story has a short.
> They
> think the drywall or siding guys screwed into the wire. The circuit was
> tripping so what he did was tied the neutral white wire into the breaker
> and
> then tied the black into the neutral bar of my panel. All works
> plugs/lights
> work. I caught this before and asked why he put the black on the neutral
> bar
> and the neutral wire on the breaker. He said he had a short somewhere and
> did that to find where the problem is.
>
> So when I was at work I was told by my contractor that the electrical was
> fixed up and ready for final inspection. Curious as I am, I decided to
> take
> the cover off of my panel and found that he didn't make the change but
> that
> he put black tape over the neutral wire and back into the circuit breaker
> and left the black on the neutral bar.
>
> I called my contractor (not the electrician) and told him what he did and
> said that there was no way that this would pass inspection. Am I wrong? Is
> this a fix that would pass inspection? Is this a common thing for
> electricians to do? This to me seems like a lazy fix, but am not sure if
> this presents a hazard.
>
> Like I said everything works in my hallway and bedroom so I am thinking he
> reversed his wiring to make things work. So what it appears to me is that
> the black wire is hitting the ground wire form when someone screwed the
> drywall or siding.
>
> Please offer me some advice and please let me know what I should say to
> the
> electrician when I question him on it. I know he will say hey don't worry
> it
> is safe, but I need to know if it is not safe and if it is not safe why it
> isn't safe to do this. That way he will not jerk me around and it would
> appear like I know what I am talking about.
>
> I am almost thinking about telling my general contractor that he will not
> get paid for my reno until this electrical situation is fixed properly and
> I
> am thinking about getting another electrician to make the fix because I
> don't think I can trust this electrician.
>
> Any and all advice is welcome
>
> Thanks in Advance

For one thing, as of the 2005 NEC, all bedroom wiring should be AFCI
protected. That situation would trip an AFCI breaker. I would question the
electrical inspector regarding no AFCI protection, and certainly what the
electrician did is improper and potentially dangerous
>
>



Posted by dpb on June 9, 2008, 10:09 pm
Doobielicious wrote:
...
> Like I said everything works in my hallway and bedroom so I am thinking he
> reversed his wiring to make things work. So what it appears to me is that
> the black wire is hitting the ground wire form when someone screwed the
> drywall or siding.
>
> Please offer me some advice and please let me know what I should say to the
> electrician when I question him on it. ...

If that is the case (and if reversing leads fixed the problem sounds as
if is good bet) a check of that circuit for continuity between the new
neutral and ground should show up that there is continuity (besides the
neutral bar at the the box). That wouldn't pass inspection if the
inspection is thorough enough.

Strange, however, that an electrical inspection wouldn't have been done
before the walls were closed up unless this is retrofit work area.

It is not an immediate safety hazard as in it'll burn the house down
tonight, but it's a circuit failure waiting to happen as well as the
improper connection between ground/neutral other than the box and that
there's almost certainly mechanical damage to the cable. Those should
not be left unattended.

--

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