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Posted by Josh on November 6, 2009, 1:31 pm
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>Josh,
>How? if you number the terminals on a 4 way as 1 through 4, the hot ones
>are 1 and 3 when the switch is in one position and the hots are 2 and 4 when
>the switch is in the other position. There is not one terminal that is
>'common'. If there's no common, then you don't have a terminal that goes
>from the switch to the fixture (or, for that matter, there's no common for
>the originating hot). If I'm misunderstanding this, please help me out.
The 4-way switch just passes through or crosses the wires from one
side to the other, depending on position. Putting 1 and 2 on the top,
and 3 and 4 on the bottom of the switch:
show/hide quoted text
Switch down: 1 <-> 3, 2 <-> 4
Switch up: 1 <-> 4, 2 <-> 3
So to use as a 3-way, use terminal 1 as common, 3 and 4 for the
travelers, leaving 2 unused
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Switch up: 1 <-> 3
Switch down: 1 <-> 4
Which is exactly what a 3-way switch does (and you can start from any
of the terminals as common, with the 2 furthest away for the
travelers).
Some diagrams of 3 and 4 way switch wiring:
http://www.ezdiyelectricity.com/?page_id=381
Josh
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Posted by Joe on November 6, 2009, 1:41 pm
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>>Josh,
>>How? if you number the terminals on a 4 way as 1 through 4, the hot ones
>>are 1 and 3 when the switch is in one position and the hots are 2 and 4
>>when
>>the switch is in the other position. There is not one terminal that is
>>'common'. If there's no common, then you don't have a terminal that goes
>>from the switch to the fixture (or, for that matter, there's no common for
>>the originating hot). If I'm misunderstanding this, please help me out.
> The 4-way switch just passes through or crosses the wires from one
> side to the other, depending on position. Putting 1 and 2 on the top,
> and 3 and 4 on the bottom of the switch:
> Switch down: 1 <-> 3, 2 <-> 4
> Switch up: 1 <-> 4, 2 <-> 3
> So to use as a 3-way, use terminal 1 as common, 3 and 4 for the
> travelers, leaving 2 unused
> Switch up: 1 <-> 3
> Switch down: 1 <-> 4
> Which is exactly what a 3-way switch does (and you can start from any
> of the terminals as common, with the 2 furthest away for the
> travelers).
> Some diagrams of 3 and 4 way switch wiring:
> http://www.ezdiyelectricity.com/?page_id=381
> Josh
In every instance in the diagrams you posted, there is no terminal that is
always 'in use' on any of the 4 way switches. There is no common.
In this diagram:
http://ezdiyelectricity.com/images/wiringdiagrams/receptacles/3-way-split-receptacle-diagram-600x420.jpg
the terminals (1 & 2 on top, 3 & 4 on bottom), the terminals used are either
1 and 4 (top left and bottom right), or if the switch is thrown, 2 & 3 (top
right and bottom left). which terminal is the common?
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Posted by Josh on November 6, 2009, 1:47 pm
show/hide quoted text
>>>Josh,
>>>How? if you number the terminals on a 4 way as 1 through 4, the hot ones
>>>are 1 and 3 when the switch is in one position and the hots are 2 and 4
>>>when
>>>the switch is in the other position. There is not one terminal that is
>>>'common'. If there's no common, then you don't have a terminal that goes
>>>from the switch to the fixture (or, for that matter, there's no common for
>>>the originating hot). If I'm misunderstanding this, please help me out.
>> The 4-way switch just passes through or crosses the wires from one
>> side to the other, depending on position. Putting 1 and 2 on the top,
>> and 3 and 4 on the bottom of the switch:
>> Switch down: 1 <-> 3, 2 <-> 4
>> Switch up: 1 <-> 4, 2 <-> 3
>> So to use as a 3-way, use terminal 1 as common, 3 and 4 for the
>> travelers, leaving 2 unused
>> Switch up: 1 <-> 3
>> Switch down: 1 <-> 4
>> Which is exactly what a 3-way switch does (and you can start from any
>> of the terminals as common, with the 2 furthest away for the
>> travelers).
>> Some diagrams of 3 and 4 way switch wiring:
>> http://www.ezdiyelectricity.com/?page_id=381
>> Josh
>In every instance in the diagrams you posted, there is no terminal that is
>always 'in use' on any of the 4 way switches. There is no common.
>In this diagram:
>http://ezdiyelectricity.com/images/wiringdiagrams/receptacles/3-way-split-receptacle-diagram-600x420.jpg
>the terminals (1 & 2 on top, 3 & 4 on bottom), the terminals used are either
>1 and 4 (top left and bottom right), or if the switch is thrown, 2 & 3 (top
>right and bottom left). which terminal is the common?
That's because the diagrams are only showing one position of the
switch (crossed); when the switch is in the other position, the switch
connects the top 2 terminals (in that diagram) together, and the
bottom 2 terminals together. That makes any of the terminals common
to the 2 terminals opposite it.
This set of diagrams shows the actual operation of the circuit better:
http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/misc/switches/4WayStills.html
Josh
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Posted by Joe on November 6, 2009, 1:54 pm
show/hide quoted text
>>>>Josh,
>>>>How? if you number the terminals on a 4 way as 1 through 4, the hot
>>>>ones
>>>>are 1 and 3 when the switch is in one position and the hots are 2 and 4
>>>>when
>>>>the switch is in the other position. There is not one terminal that is
>>>>'common'. If there's no common, then you don't have a terminal that
>>>>goes
>>>>from the switch to the fixture (or, for that matter, there's no common
>>>>for
>>>>the originating hot). If I'm misunderstanding this, please help me
>>>>out.
>>> The 4-way switch just passes through or crosses the wires from one
>>> side to the other, depending on position. Putting 1 and 2 on the top,
>>> and 3 and 4 on the bottom of the switch:
>>> Switch down: 1 <-> 3, 2 <-> 4
>>> Switch up: 1 <-> 4, 2 <-> 3
>>> So to use as a 3-way, use terminal 1 as common, 3 and 4 for the
>>> travelers, leaving 2 unused
>>> Switch up: 1 <-> 3
>>> Switch down: 1 <-> 4
>>> Which is exactly what a 3-way switch does (and you can start from any
>>> of the terminals as common, with the 2 furthest away for the
>>> travelers).
>>> Some diagrams of 3 and 4 way switch wiring:
>>> http://www.ezdiyelectricity.com/?page_id=381
>>> Josh
>>In every instance in the diagrams you posted, there is no terminal that is
>>always 'in use' on any of the 4 way switches. There is no common.
>>In this diagram:
>>http://ezdiyelectricity.com/images/wiringdiagrams/receptacles/3-way-split-receptacle-diagram-600x420.jpg
>>the terminals (1 & 2 on top, 3 & 4 on bottom), the terminals used are
>>either
>>1 and 4 (top left and bottom right), or if the switch is thrown, 2 & 3
>>(top
>>right and bottom left). which terminal is the common?
> That's because the diagrams are only showing one position of the
> switch (crossed); when the switch is in the other position, the switch
> connects the top 2 terminals (in that diagram) together, and the
> bottom 2 terminals together. That makes any of the terminals common
> to the 2 terminals opposite it.
> This set of diagrams shows the actual operation of the circuit better:
> http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/misc/switches/4WayStills.html
> Josh
Josh,
thanks.
"a man is never so sure he's right as he is the moment before he's proven
wrong"
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Posted by mm on November 6, 2009, 11:05 pm
show/hide quoted text
>>>Josh,
>>>How? if you number the terminals on a 4 way as 1 through 4, the hot ones
>>>are 1 and 3 when the switch is in one position and the hots are 2 and 4
>>>when
>>>the switch is in the other position. There is not one terminal that is
>>>'common'. If there's no common, then you don't have a terminal that goes
>>>from the switch to the fixture (or, for that matter, there's no common for
>>>the originating hot). If I'm misunderstanding this, please help me out.
>> The 4-way switch just passes through or crosses the wires from one
>> side to the other, depending on position. Putting 1 and 2 on the top,
>> and 3 and 4 on the bottom of the switch:
>> Switch down: 1 <-> 3, 2 <-> 4
>> Switch up: 1 <-> 4, 2 <-> 3
>> So to use as a 3-way, use terminal 1 as common, 3 and 4 for the
>> travelers, leaving 2 unused
>> Switch up: 1 <-> 3
>> Switch down: 1 <-> 4
>> Which is exactly what a 3-way switch does (and you can start from any
>> of the terminals as common, with the 2 furthest away for the
>> travelers).
>> Some diagrams of 3 and 4 way switch wiring:
>> http://www.ezdiyelectricity.com/?page_id=381
>> Josh
>In every instance in the diagrams you posted, there is no terminal that is
>always 'in use' on any of the 4 way switches. There is no common.
I didn't see it at first but Josh is right. You can use a 4-way for a
3-way.
1 2 1 2
X =
3 4 or 3 4 .
In one position 1 conects with 2 and in the other it connects with 4.
Don't use 3 and the remainder of the switch is like a 3-way.
show/hide quoted text
>In this diagram:
>http://ezdiyelectricity.com/images/wiringdiagrams/receptacles/3-way-split-receptacle-diagram-600x420.jpg
>the terminals (1 & 2 on top, 3 & 4 on bottom), the terminals used are either
>1 and 4 (top left and bottom right), or if the switch is thrown, 2 & 3 (top
>right and bottom left). which terminal is the common?
No, your description is wrong here. In one position it is 1-4 and
2-3. If the wsitch is thrown, it's 1-3 and 2-4. Either 1 or 3 (but
not both) can be used as the common. 2 and 4 are meant for the
travelers.
Oh, I see you agreed a couple posts down.
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>How? if you number the terminals on a 4 way as 1 through 4, the hot ones
>are 1 and 3 when the switch is in one position and the hots are 2 and 4 when
>the switch is in the other position. There is not one terminal that is
>'common'. If there's no common, then you don't have a terminal that goes
>from the switch to the fixture (or, for that matter, there's no common for
>the originating hot). If I'm misunderstanding this, please help me out.