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Posted by AZ Nomad on November 6, 2009, 1:43 pm
>How? if you number the terminals on a 4 way as 1 through 4, the hot ones
>are 1 and 3 when the switch is in one position and the hots are 2 and 4 when
>the switch is in the other position. There is not one terminal that is
>'common'. If there's no common, then you don't have a terminal that goes
>from the switch to the fixture (or, for that matter, there's no common for
>the originating hot). If I'm misunderstanding this, please help me out.
a three way switch is a single pole double throw (S.P.D.T.) switch:
input A, outputs B and C
Switch up: A connects to B
Switch down: A connects to C
a four way switch is a double pole double throw (D.P.D.T.) switch with
a cross connected internal connection:
inputs A and B. Outputs C and D
Switch up: A connects to C, B conects to D
Switch down: A connects to D, B conects to C
To use a 4 way siwtch as a 3 way switch, leave one input (B) unconnected.
UP: A connects to C. Down: A connects to D.
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Posted by Joe on November 6, 2009, 1:47 pm
>>How? if you number the terminals on a 4 way as 1 through 4, the hot ones
>>are 1 and 3 when the switch is in one position and the hots are 2 and 4
>>when
>>the switch is in the other position. There is not one terminal that is
>>'common'. If there's no common, then you don't have a terminal that goes
>>from the switch to the fixture (or, for that matter, there's no common for
>>the originating hot). If I'm misunderstanding this, please help me out.
> a three way switch is a single pole double throw (S.P.D.T.) switch:
> input A, outputs B and C
> Switch up: A connects to B
> Switch down: A connects to C
> a four way switch is a double pole double throw (D.P.D.T.) switch with
> a cross connected internal connection:
> inputs A and B. Outputs C and D
> Switch up: A connects to C, B conects to D
> Switch down: A connects to D, B conects to C
> To use a 4 way siwtch as a 3 way switch, leave one input (B) unconnected.
> UP: A connects to C. Down: A connects to D.
Ok, I had a different understanding of the internal workings. thanks for
clarifying.
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Posted by JIMMIE on November 7, 2009, 1:49 am
..
> >>> I have an L-shaped hallway with:
> >>> a ceiling light in the middle of each leg
> >>> a light switch at the end of each leg
> >>> a light switch at the intersection.
> >>> Several years ago, I used to be able to turn the lights on and off
> >>> from any switch. But now the lights can be turned on and off by only
> >>> one switch (at the end of one leg).
> >>> In previous attempts to resolve this problem, I replaced all of the
> >>> switches but I didn't record what wires went to each terminal.
> >>> Question: What kind of new switches do I need (single-pole, 3-way, 4-
> >>> way) and how many of each?
> >>> How do I determine what wire connects to each terminal of each switch=
?
> >>You need two three way switches and one four way (or you can use three
> >>four way switches and just disregard one terminal on each.)
> >>To determine how to hook them up, you'd have to open up all the boxes
> >>and puzzle out the wiring. =A0There's many different ways they could be
> >>hooked up and it is difficult to determine from here which you have :)
> >>nate
> >>You can't use a four way as a substitute for a 3-way. =A0There's no com=
mon
> >>terminal on a four way switch.
> > Sure you can; any of the 4 terminals can be the common, with the
> > travelers connected to the opposite 2 (and the one directly across
> > unused).
> > To the OP, you need to continuity-check the wires to figure out which
> > ones are the "travelers" -- these go between the switches only. =A0The
> > original 3-way switch locations will have 2 travelers, the 4-way
> > location will have 4 travelers (2 each connected to the 2 at each
> > 3-way location).
> > Google "4 way switch diagram" and you'll find more information --
> > there are many ways to run the physical wires, but they all degenerate
> > to the same switching flow.
> > Josh
> Josh,
> How? =A0if you number the terminals on a 4 way as 1 through 4, the hot on=
es
> are 1 and 3 when the switch is in one position and the hots are 2 and 4 w=
hen
> the switch is in the other position. =A0There is not one terminal that is
> 'common'. =A0If there's no common, then you don't have a terminal that go=
es
> from the switch to the fixture (or, for that matter, there's no common fo=
r
> the originating hot). =A0If =A0I'm misunderstanding this, please help me =
out.
These switches don't connect to the hot or the load they connect to
the travelers.
There are 4 terminals lets call them A, A+, B and B+
In one position A is connected A+ and B is connected to B+. In the
other position A is connect to B+ and B is connected to A+. Think
straight thru or crossing over. Draw a diagram of a 3 way switching
circuit and insert this switch between the two switches connected to
the travelers. Follow the current path as you change each switch. Draw
it out, work thru it until you understand it and tyou will never
forget it. Changing the position of the 4 way switch has the effect of
reversing the connection of the travelers on a 3 way switch. You can
have as many 4 way switches between the 3 way switches as you like. My
inlaw's house has a circuit with 4 four way ans 2 3 way switches to
control a light in the den
BTW in a pinch you can use a 4-way switch as a 3 way switch. let A or
A+ be the common and B and B+ will be the travelers Also if you choose
B or B+ as the common A and A+ will be connected to the travelers.
Jimmie
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Posted by Frank on November 6, 2009, 12:20 pm
> > I have an L-shaped hallway with:
> > =A0 =A0 =A0a ceiling light in the middle of each leg
> > =A0 =A0 =A0a light switch at the end of each leg
> > =A0 =A0 =A0a light switch at the intersection.
> > Several years ago, I used to be able to turn the lights on and off
> > from any switch. =A0But now the lights can be turned on and off by only
> > one switch (at the end of one leg).
> > In previous attempts to resolve this problem, I replaced all of the
> > switches but I didn't record what wires went to each terminal.
> > Question: =A0What kind of new switches do I need (single-pole, 3-way, 4=
-
> > way) and how many of each?
> > How do I determine what wire connects to each terminal of each switch?
> You need two three way switches and one four way (or you can use three
> four way switches and just disregard one terminal on each.)
> To determine how to hook them up, you'd have to open up all the boxes
> and puzzle out the wiring. =A0There's many different ways they could be
> hooked up and it is difficult to determine from here which you have :)
> nate- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
I'm counting only 2 switches. I had same problem and learned that you
have to replace exact wires on switch when you replace a switch.
I kept playing around with it and finally an electrician with his
meter figured it out for nothing as he was making an appraisal on
another job for me.
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Posted by N8N on November 6, 2009, 1:47 pm
> > > I have an L-shaped hallway with:
> > > =A0 =A0 =A0a ceiling light in the middle of each leg
> > > =A0 =A0 =A0a light switch at the end of each leg
> > > =A0 =A0 =A0a light switch at the intersection.
> > > Several years ago, I used to be able to turn the lights on and off
> > > from any switch. =A0But now the lights can be turned on and off by on=
ly
> > > one switch (at the end of one leg).
> > > In previous attempts to resolve this problem, I replaced all of the
> > > switches but I didn't record what wires went to each terminal.
> > > Question: =A0What kind of new switches do I need (single-pole, 3-way,=
4-
> > > way) and how many of each?
> > > How do I determine what wire connects to each terminal of each switch=
?
> > You need two three way switches and one four way (or you can use three
> > four way switches and just disregard one terminal on each.)
> > To determine how to hook them up, you'd have to open up all the boxes
> > and puzzle out the wiring. =A0There's many different ways they could be
> > hooked up and it is difficult to determine from here which you have :)
> > nate- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -
> I'm counting only 2 switches. =A0I had same problem and learned that you
> have to replace exact wires on switch when you replace a switch.
> I kept playing around with it and finally an electrician with his
> meter figured it out for nothing as he was making an appraisal on
> another job for me.
I used to live in a house that I was renting from a guy who had
"updated" the electricals (translation: he had replaced the switches
and receptacles.) Unfortunately he wasn't real careful wiring up the
three way switches, and to make matters worse, the house had old cloth
covered wiring which meant that all the wires were a dirty brownish-
grey color :)
I figured out how to make the hall lights work properly in an
afternoon, but it's one of those things, I can *do* it but God help
you if you want me to show you *how.* Worse yet if I have to do it
over the Internet...
Probably the easiest thing is to pull everything out of the wall,
disconnect everything, and first identify which wire is still hot
(after you turn the breaker back on, because you turned it off before
you started, right? RIGHT?)
From there, hopefully everything will be self evident (pay special
attention to which individual wires come from which cables) but if
not, either hooking up a 3-way at the "hot" location and continuing to
the other locations and/or using a 9V battery and a test light can
help trace out what goes where.
good luck
nate
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>are 1 and 3 when the switch is in one position and the hots are 2 and 4 when
>the switch is in the other position. There is not one terminal that is
>'common'. If there's no common, then you don't have a terminal that goes
>from the switch to the fixture (or, for that matter, there's no common for
>the originating hot). If I'm misunderstanding this, please help me out.