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Moisture inside a double-glazed window pane

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Moisture inside a double-glazed window pane Jonathan Sachs 07-25-2006
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Posted by Chris Lewis on July 27, 2006, 3:28 pm
> > Heating to displace moisture works well, but only when you have
> > air circulation. A thermopane unit doesn't. By definition.
> >
> > If you had _two_ holes, and blew warm, dry (however you got it dried)
> > air through, that'd be different.

> All of this makes sense if we're assuming the moisture is the
> condensate of moisture saturated air. I guess I'm assuming the
> opposite, that rain has been entering through a leak. Seems to me this
> would alter the calculations.

Actually, I'm not assuming that. The assumption is that the
seal has become somewhat defective, and the original dry air
(or argon) inside the unit has become replaced with moist air.

Once moisture is inside the thermopane, it don't make no
difference how it got there, nor whether it entered as a liquid,
vapor or solid. It's air and vapor/liquid/solid water that
equilibriates at a certain point given the amount of water and
the temperature.

> In time, faster with heat, it should
> diffuse to equalise with ambient conditions. This could take time,
> depending on size of opening, or using two holes as you said.

Assuming that the crack that let the moisture in is anything short
of a honking big hole, simply evaporating the water and waiting
for it to diffuse out will take a very long time. There's
essentially no external circulation because the hole is too small.
The only air going through the crack is that pushed out by thermal
expansion of the air inside the thermopane.

Infinitely long if the ambient air outside is anywhere near as humid.

It may have taken years for the thermopane to fog up with daily
temperature cycling and the existing crack. How many years do
you expect to be heatgunning it? ;-)

The humidity inside the thermopane may well be lower than
summer ambient conditions, but in winter, it's high enough to condense
(or even freeze) out. In other words, trying a simple heat trick
during a humid summer day may make the problem _worse_ (as the window cools
off, it sucks in air with more moisture than is already inside
the thermopane).

In order for this to even remotely work, you have to forcibly
replace the air inside the thermopane (positive circulation, eg: two
holes) with what probably has to be artificially dried air. An air
compressor with a drier would probably work (but heaven help
you if you forget/plug the exit hole!).

Or introduce something inside the thermopane that captures the water
(eg: silica gel).

Then seal up the holes.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

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Posted by Sev on July 27, 2006, 4:05 pm

Chris Lewis wrote:



> Once moisture is inside the thermopane, it don't make no
> difference how it got there, nor whether it entered as a liquid,
> vapor or solid. It's air and vapor/liquid/solid water that
> equilibriates at a certain point given the amount of water and
> the temperature.

I meant that it might not, in fact, be at equilibrium, but well above
that due to rain getting in.

> > In time, faster with heat, it should
> > diffuse to equalise with ambient conditions. This could take time,
> > depending on size of opening, or using two holes as you said.
>
> Assuming that the crack that let the moisture in is anything short
> of a honking big hole, simply evaporating the water and waiting
> for it to diffuse out will take a very long time. There's
> essentially no external circulation because the hole is too small.
> The only air going through the crack is that pushed out by thermal
> expansion of the air inside the thermopane.
>
> Infinitely long if the ambient air outside is anywhere near as humid.
>
> It may have taken years for the thermopane to fog up with daily
> temperature cycling and the existing crack. How many years do
> you expect to be heatgunning it? ;-)
>
> The humidity inside the thermopane may well be lower than
> summer ambient conditions, but in winter, it's high enough to condense
> (or even freeze) out. In other words, trying a simple heat trick
> during a humid summer day may make the problem _worse_ (as the window cools
> off, it sucks in air with more moisture than is already inside
> the thermopane).

I did consider this- why I suggested opening crack/ hole and doing it
in hot dry day. But come to think of it, cold dry day would be better-
less moisture in air at same rh.

> Or introduce something inside the thermopane that captures the water
> (eg: silica gel).
This would be a good last step. Maybe open up a diaper if you need a
plentiful source :)
If he removed window from frame, he could try dripping water out, then
inject and drain out alcohol.


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