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Notching Slab For Patio Door -- How?

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Notching Slab For Patio Door -- How? jim evans 08-06-2005
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Posted by jim evans on August 6, 2005, 7:30 pm


wrote:

>Our track is on a curb outside, which is level with the rest of the slab
>inside. No weepholes on outside of track, only little space at each end
>which allows water to drain.

I strongly suspect if mine were on a curb outside, as you describe,
the channels would drain out each end. As it is the track butts into
the door jam, trapping the water in the channels and the water seeps
into the walls.

This isn't a very good illustration. This is a different door than
the one that's against the carpet. As you can see it backs up against
ceramic tile, so the problem isn't as great. But, you can see the
deteriation of the wall where the track butts up against it. I repair
the wall and replace the molding periodically. The little piece of
quarter-round that's missing rotted away. All 4 of my patio door are
the same and all do this.

http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/2843/patiodoortrack0ne.jpg

jim


Posted by Rich on August 6, 2005, 9:31 pm



> wrote:
>
>>Our track is on a curb outside, which is level with the rest of the slab
>>inside. No weepholes on outside of track, only little space at each end
>>which allows water to drain.
>
> I strongly suspect if mine were on a curb outside, as you describe,
> the channels would drain out each end. As it is the track butts into
> the door jam, trapping the water in the channels and the water seeps
> into the walls.
>
> This isn't a very good illustration. This is a different door than
> the one that's against the carpet. As you can see it backs up against
> ceramic tile, so the problem isn't as great. But, you can see the
> deteriation of the wall where the track butts up against it. I repair
> the wall and replace the molding periodically. The little piece of
> quarter-round that's missing rotted away. All 4 of my patio door are
> the same and all do this.
>
> http://img47.imageshack.us/img47/2843/patiodoortrack0ne.jpg
>
> jim

Jim the picture shows one of the problems. See the front track, the one
that the glass door rides on? It's cut short of the edge so that any wind
driven water that makes it over that track will be funneled back to the
outside as the sill should slightly go down hill from inside the house to
out. But the screen door track goes all the way to the end trapping all the
water that has hit the glass and dropped down now you have all that water
sitting in-between these two tracks with no where to go except water seeks
its own level and as I zoom into the picture I can see that the caulking has
failed between the two tracks to the upright piece, well actually the whole
area has failed this could be your major problems.

So I would suggest shortening the screen door track like the glass door
track. Then repair the failed seal between the horizontal piece and the
vertical piece. It will take some doing as its aluminum and hard to get to
but worth the effort if this is your problem. Then use good 100% silicone
caulk on that joint then with the inside door trim removed so you can see
water immediately give it the old hose test not pressure at the joints so
much but like water on the glass and let it run for a while with someone
inside watching for water. If all is well the water should now not pool
between the tracks and will run out and not go into the now resorted joint
between the horizontal and vertical pieces.

I hope this solves it for you, Rich





Posted by Duane Bozarth on August 6, 2005, 2:04 pm


jim evans wrote:
>
.....

I think you don't want a notch there at all...if anything, I'd pour a
raised sill to set them on.

The answer is that the tracks should be mounted w/ a water-tight seal
underneath and there won't be water getting between them and the slab.


Posted by Duane Bozarth on August 6, 2005, 2:06 pm


Duane Bozarth wrote:
>
> jim evans wrote:
> >
> ....
>
> I think you don't want a notch there at all...if anything, I'd pour a
> raised sill to set them on.
>
> The answer is that the tracks should be mounted w/ a water-tight seal
> underneath and there won't be water getting between them and the slab.

BTW, the guy didn't mount the tracks inside-out perchance, did he? So
that the water is from the drains in the tracks coming inside instead of
going out?


Posted by Robert Allison on August 6, 2005, 11:30 pm


jim evans wrote:
> I have 4 patio doors. The builder did not recess them below the slab
> so the leak water under the track ruining carpets and rotting the
> walls at the end of the tracks. I am intending to replace at least
> one of these doors. When I do this I want to notch the slab so the
> replacement door sits below the upper surface of the slab. But,
> there's very little room to do this. A deck comes almost up to the
> slab on the outside.
>
> How do I cut a neat notch for the door track? It must be fairly level
> and I would like the cuts on the inside edge and at each end to be
> neat and square.
>
> I assume I use a diamond blade on a circular saw to cut the long
> inside cut but how to make the end cuts without cutting the deck and
> how to get the concrete block out of the notch area?
>
> Here's a crude drawing of the situation
> http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/917/patiodoor0ml.gif
>
>
> jim

Some of the other posters already mentioned the correct
answer, but I will jump in just to reinforce their positions.

The patio door does not go into a recess in the slab. It sits
on the same plane as the rest of the floor. It needs to be
installed correctly with proper adhesive sealant under the
door threshold and about 2-4" up the sides.

I am a patio door installer (among my other jobs as a general
contractor) and out of the 200 or so patio doors that I have
installed over the past 35 years, NONE have been set into a
recess in the slab. I have had a couple of leaks that I had
to remove the door and repair, but every installation has been
waterproof when complete (and correctly installed).

You need to get advice from someone other than your "expert".

As a caveat, I have found that many installers do not follow,
or do not know the correct installation procedures for the
various situations for which they may be installing doors.
When I get a factory installer on the jobsite, I always watch
them like a hawk.

Here are a couple of sites to look at installation procedures:

http://www.mwwindows.com/pdf/wslinst.pdf

http://www.chase-pitkin.com/How-To/Projects/doors_win/frenchdoors/frenchdoors.htm

http://www.pella.com/resources/pdf/clad_hinged_patio_door.pdf

Although, the pella site is for a hinged patio door, the info
is correct for a standard slider, and has a better detail on
flashing for wood floors. The flashing is not needed for
concrete slab applications.

--
Robert Allison        
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX


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