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Notching Slab For Patio Door -- How?

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Notching Slab For Patio Door -- How? jim evans 08-06-2005
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Posted by jim evans on August 6, 2005, 7:05 pm


On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 23:30:50 GMT, Robert Allison

>The patio door does not go into a recess in the slab. It sits
>on the same plane as the rest of the floor. It needs to be
>installed correctly with proper adhesive sealant under the
>door threshold and about 2-4" up the sides.
>
>I am a patio door installer (among my other jobs as a general
>contractor)

Then maybe you can explain something that confuses me. In all
explanations (including the ones you gave) for how to install these
doors; in one way or the other, they always say (and these are quotes
from one of your links):

". . run heavy beads of caulking along the floor where the sill will
rest."

"Shim under the sill . . .as necessary [to level the door]."

How do you retain the seal created by the 'generous caulking' and also
lift the sill with shims to level it?

jim


Posted by Duane Bozarth on August 7, 2005, 8:46 am


jim evans wrote:
>
> On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 23:30:50 GMT, Robert Allison
>
> >The patio door does not go into a recess in the slab. It sits
> >on the same plane as the rest of the floor. It needs to be
> >installed correctly with proper adhesive sealant under the
> >door threshold and about 2-4" up the sides.
> >
> >I am a patio door installer (among my other jobs as a general
> >contractor)
>
> Then maybe you can explain something that confuses me. In all
> explanations (including the ones you gave) for how to install these
> doors; in one way or the other, they always say (and these are quotes
> from one of your links):
>
> ". . run heavy beads of caulking along the floor where the sill will
> rest."
>
> "Shim under the sill . . .as necessary [to level the door]."
>
> How do you retain the seal created by the 'generous caulking' and also
> lift the sill with shims to level it?

There needs to be a flat, level surface <first>. Only if the need for
shimming is minute can one get away w/o preparing the sill plate surface
the door is on first.

I was going to add this as another possibility of the problem--the
original slab wasn't poured flat/level and the original installer didn't
prepare the opening before setting the door, but (as is often the case
:) ) Bob got a critical point in.


Posted by jim evans on August 7, 2005, 10:29 am


On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 08:46:12 -0500, Duane Bozarth

>> Then maybe you can explain something that confuses me. In all
>> explanations (including the ones you gave) for how to install these
>> doors; in one way or the other, they always say (and these are quotes
>> from one of your links):
>>
>> ". . run heavy beads of caulking along the floor where the sill will
>> rest."
>>
>> "Shim under the sill . . .as necessary [to level the door]."
>>
>> How do you retain the seal created by the 'generous caulking' and also
>> lift the sill with shims to level it?
>
>There needs to be a flat, level surface <first>. Only if the need for
>shimming is minute can one get away w/o preparing the sill plate surface
>the door is on first.
>
>I was going to add this as another possibility of the problem--the
>original slab wasn't poured flat/level and the original installer didn't
>prepare the opening before setting the door,

I've read several instructions for installing patio doors and I don't
remember any mention of the need to "prepare the sill plate surface"
other than yours. The three references Robert gave made no mention
of it. On the other hand all or almost all talk about shimming 'as
necessary.'

jim


Posted by Duane Bozarth on August 7, 2005, 1:50 pm


jim evans wrote:
>
> On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 08:46:12 -0500, Duane Bozarth
>
....

> >I was going to add this as another possibility of the problem--the
> >original slab wasn't poured flat/level and the original installer didn't
> >prepare the opening before setting the door,
>
> I've read several instructions for installing patio doors and I don't
> remember any mention of the need to "prepare the sill plate surface"
> other than yours. The three references Robert gave made no mention
> of it. On the other hand all or almost all talk about shimming 'as
> necessary.'

It has always seemed patently obvious to me that one can't have a
weather-tight seal against air (as you've noticed). All instructions
I've read basically started w/ a near flat, level surface. If you don't
have that, that's the first thing to get. I also (at least personally)
interpret "shimming" of anything more than a small fraction under a door
sill as needing to be continuous, not a "hit and lick" wedge in a couple
of places. This is needed both for long-term rigidity as well as the
seal.

ISTR there was a pretty good detailed article in a recent Fine
Homebuilding where a fellow went through his process...


Posted by Robert Allison on August 7, 2005, 3:31 pm


jim evans wrote:

> On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 23:30:50 GMT, Robert Allison
>
>
>>The patio door does not go into a recess in the slab. It sits
>>on the same plane as the rest of the floor. It needs to be
>>installed correctly with proper adhesive sealant under the
>>door threshold and about 2-4" up the sides.
>>
>>I am a patio door installer (among my other jobs as a general
>>contractor)
>
>
> Then maybe you can explain something that confuses me. In all
> explanations (including the ones you gave) for how to install these
> doors; in one way or the other, they always say (and these are quotes
> from one of your links):
>
> ". . run heavy beads of caulking along the floor where the sill will
> rest."
>
> "Shim under the sill . . .as necessary [to level the door]."
>
> How do you retain the seal created by the 'generous caulking' and also
> lift the sill with shims to level it?
>
> jim

If shimming is necessary, then the slab is not completely
level. Most of the time the slab is close enough that the
sealant STILL seals the underside of the threshold to the
slab. I use a urethane sealant that is pretty stiff, and the
beads of sealant stand about 3/8" tall off the slab. I have
not had more than a few instances of the slab being out of
level by more than 1/4" or so in the six feet of the door
opening. When I do run into this, then I usually discover it
when I check the door opening for plumb and level.

If you have this problem, then you must address it before
installing the door. I have had to make 6' long shims to seal
down to the floor, then install the door on the shims and seal
the door to the shims.

Usually you don't have this problem and the sealant will seal
the track to the slab even if you have to shim a spot or two.
I always seal the track to the slab on the outside anyway,
just to be sure. If I have to shim the door by more than a
1/4", then after the door is installed, I push some backerrod
under the door and fill the space with the same sealant to
prevent water intrusion.

--
Robert Allison        
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX


Page 4 of 6       < 1 2 3 > last >>
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