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Old BX or new Romex? What would you do? Nate Nagel 02-25-2008
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Posted by Nate Nagel on February 25, 2008, 10:49 pm
Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring? Old BX or new
Romex? I'm really not sure which should be preferable. BX has cloth
covered insulators and just the little strip for ground, but it is
working well (was working on a switch hot and accidentally touched the
box, the lights were off almost simultaneously with the spark - woops.
Just for the record I was wearing my work boots and was careful not to
let my hands touch anything metal; I just didn't realize that the switch
I was using was almost as wide as a single gang box...) cloth covered
insulation appears to be in good shape. I like the damage resistance of
the BX, but I also like the higher temperature rating of the new NM-B.

I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any; new
NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference? I know the right
answer to the question is "use new BX with 90C insulation and a separate
ground wire" but... um... you priced BX lately? I am definitely
replacing a few runs with romex to allow for a 3-way switch on the
stairwell light and will be replacing a couple lampholders with shop
lights (cheap 'n' sleazy, just using short fixture whips out of the
blank plate of the octagon box, there's no ceiling in the laundry room
and won't be until *ALL* the wiring is done)

Also, in situations where someone's already been there and pulled
somewhat-newer Romex, do you generally consider it acceptable to
"repurpose" it if it runs where I need it? This is all the old NM not
NM-B, and for extra goodness some of it has a 16AWG ground. Is this a
big deal? Repulling it is not the end of the world, just a minor PITA.
I know it's not the best it could be, but ISTM that it should be
acceptable...

Oddly enough, this whole line of thought was prompted by the light at
the bottom of the stairs going out as I was pulling a piece of Romex
through the same space. Whenever I knocked against one of the pieces of
BX going into the ceiling box (I was reaching above the ceiling space
between the studs) the light would go out, and then when I touched it
again it would come back on. I figured this needed immediate attention,
and I just imagined that I'd find that I'd have to repull all of the
runs that entered the box due to it being fried. Imagine my surprise
when I pulled it down and everything looked fine inside, but when I
removed the lampholder itself the neutral screw was loose. OK,
reinstall, works. Left it dangling from the wires and carefully wiggled
the two wire nuts inside the box. When I wiggled the neutral, the light
would flicker. Not good! removed wire nut, here it didn't have any
spiral steel insert and was very loose on the wires. Some electrician -
presumably back in 1948! - didn't notice it, and here it was to freak me
out 60 years later... A new wire nut out of the electrical drawer and
all is working fine now :)

nate

(getting in practice for all the hidden work...)

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Posted by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Blattus_Slaf on February 25, 2008, 11:22 pm
Nate Nagel wrote:
> Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring? Old BX or new
> Romex? I'm really not sure which should be preferable. BX has cloth
> covered insulators and just the little strip for ground, but it is
> working well (was working on a switch hot and accidentally touched the
> box, the lights were off almost simultaneously with the spark - woops.
> Just for the record I was wearing my work boots and was careful not to
> let my hands touch anything metal; I just didn't realize that the switch
> I was using was almost as wide as a single gang box...) cloth covered
> insulation appears to be in good shape. I like the damage resistance of
> the BX, but I also like the higher temperature rating of the new NM-B.
>
> I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any; new
> NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference? I know the right
> answer to the question is "use new BX with 90C insulation and a separate
> ground wire" but... um... you priced BX lately? I am definitely
> replacing a few runs with romex to allow for a 3-way switch on the
> stairwell light and will be replacing a couple lampholders with shop
> lights (cheap 'n' sleazy, just using short fixture whips out of the
> blank plate of the octagon box, there's no ceiling in the laundry room
> and won't be until *ALL* the wiring is done)
>
> Also, in situations where someone's already been there and pulled
> somewhat-newer Romex, do you generally consider it acceptable to
> "repurpose" it if it runs where I need it? This is all the old NM not
> NM-B, and for extra goodness some of it has a 16AWG ground. Is this a
> big deal? Repulling it is not the end of the world, just a minor PITA.
> I know it's not the best it could be, but ISTM that it should be
> acceptable...
>
> Oddly enough, this whole line of thought was prompted by the light at
> the bottom of the stairs going out as I was pulling a piece of Romex
> through the same space. Whenever I knocked against one of the pieces of
> BX going into the ceiling box (I was reaching above the ceiling space
> between the studs) the light would go out, and then when I touched it
> again it would come back on. I figured this needed immediate attention,
> and I just imagined that I'd find that I'd have to repull all of the
> runs that entered the box due to it being fried. Imagine my surprise
> when I pulled it down and everything looked fine inside, but when I
> removed the lampholder itself the neutral screw was loose. OK,
> reinstall, works. Left it dangling from the wires and carefully wiggled
> the two wire nuts inside the box. When I wiggled the neutral, the light
> would flicker. Not good! removed wire nut, here it didn't have any
> spiral steel insert and was very loose on the wires. Some electrician -
> presumably back in 1948! - didn't notice it, and here it was to freak me
> out 60 years later... A new wire nut out of the electrical drawer and
> all is working fine now :)
>
> nate
>
> (getting in practice for all the hidden work...)
>

Well the old BX in my previous house had for a 15 amp circuit a wire
feeding the dining room and living room, all the outlets and overhead
lights, then it went up to the second floor and ran 3 bedrooms outlets
and lights and the bathroom and a hall closet light. That I would
replace with Romex with additional circuits.

--
Blattus Slafaly ? 3 :) 7/8

Posted by Nate Nagel on February 25, 2008, 11:37 pm
Blattus Slafaly £ ¥ 0/00 :) wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>
>> Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring? Old BX or new
>> Romex? I'm really not sure which should be preferable. BX has cloth
>> covered insulators and just the little strip for ground, but it is
>> working well (was working on a switch hot and accidentally touched the
>> box, the lights were off almost simultaneously with the spark - woops.
>> Just for the record I was wearing my work boots and was careful not to
>> let my hands touch anything metal; I just didn't realize that the
>> switch I was using was almost as wide as a single gang box...) cloth
>> covered insulation appears to be in good shape. I like the damage
>> resistance of the BX, but I also like the higher temperature rating of
>> the new NM-B.
>>
>> I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any;
>> new NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference? I know the
>> right answer to the question is "use new BX with 90C insulation and a
>> separate ground wire" but... um... you priced BX lately? I am
>> definitely replacing a few runs with romex to allow for a 3-way switch
>> on the stairwell light and will be replacing a couple lampholders with
>> shop lights (cheap 'n' sleazy, just using short fixture whips out of
>> the blank plate of the octagon box, there's no ceiling in the laundry
>> room and won't be until *ALL* the wiring is done)
>>
>> Also, in situations where someone's already been there and pulled
>> somewhat-newer Romex, do you generally consider it acceptable to
>> "repurpose" it if it runs where I need it? This is all the old NM not
>> NM-B, and for extra goodness some of it has a 16AWG ground. Is this a
>> big deal? Repulling it is not the end of the world, just a minor
>> PITA. I know it's not the best it could be, but ISTM that it should
>> be acceptable...
>>
>> Oddly enough, this whole line of thought was prompted by the light at
>> the bottom of the stairs going out as I was pulling a piece of Romex
>> through the same space. Whenever I knocked against one of the pieces
>> of BX going into the ceiling box (I was reaching above the ceiling
>> space between the studs) the light would go out, and then when I
>> touched it again it would come back on. I figured this needed
>> immediate attention, and I just imagined that I'd find that I'd have
>> to repull all of the runs that entered the box due to it being fried.
>> Imagine my surprise when I pulled it down and everything looked fine
>> inside, but when I removed the lampholder itself the neutral screw was
>> loose. OK, reinstall, works. Left it dangling from the wires and
>> carefully wiggled the two wire nuts inside the box. When I wiggled
>> the neutral, the light would flicker. Not good! removed wire nut,
>> here it didn't have any spiral steel insert and was very loose on the
>> wires. Some electrician - presumably back in 1948! - didn't notice
>> it, and here it was to freak me out 60 years later... A new wire nut
>> out of the electrical drawer and all is working fine now :)
>>
>> nate
>>
>> (getting in practice for all the hidden work...)
>>
>
> Well the old BX in my previous house had for a 15 amp circuit a wire
> feeding the dining room and living room, all the outlets and overhead
> lights, then it went up to the second floor and ran 3 bedrooms outlets
> and lights and the bathroom and a hall closet light. That I would
> replace with Romex with additional circuits.
>

That's not an issue... at least not one pertinent to my question. This
circuit serves only the basement lights, period - so when all is said
and done there'll be two troffers, two shop lights, and one fixture on
the circuit. Now the second floor, that's a different story - I do have
one 15A circuit serving three bedrooms, the bath, and a hallway.
That'll all get replaced with at least three circuits pulled in new
Romex (one 20A for the bath and the rest split into two circuits)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Posted by Big_Jake on February 25, 2008, 11:40 pm
> Blattus Slafaly =A3 =A5 0/00 :) wrote:
>
>
>
> > Nate Nagel wrote:
>
> >> Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring? Old BX or new
> >> Romex? I'm really not sure which should be preferable. BX has cloth
> >> covered insulators and just the little strip for ground, but it is
> >> working well (was working on a switch hot and accidentally touched the
> >> box, the lights were off almost simultaneously with the spark - woops.
> >> Just for the record I was wearing my work boots and was careful not to
> >> let my hands touch anything metal; I just didn't realize that the
> >> switch I was using was almost as wide as a single gang box...) cloth
> >> covered insulation appears to be in good shape. I like the damage
> >> resistance of the BX, but I also like the higher temperature rating of
> >> the new NM-B.
>
> >> I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any;
> >> new NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference? I know the
> >> right answer to the question is "use new BX with 90C insulation and a
> >> separate ground wire" but... um... you priced BX lately? I am
> >> definitely replacing a few runs with romex to allow for a 3-way switch
> >> on the stairwell light and will be replacing a couple lampholders with
> >> shop lights (cheap 'n' sleazy, just using short fixture whips out of
> >> the blank plate of the octagon box, there's no ceiling in the laundry
> >> room and won't be until *ALL* the wiring is done)
>
> >> Also, in situations where someone's already been there and pulled
> >> somewhat-newer Romex, do you generally consider it acceptable to
> >> "repurpose" it if it runs where I need it? This is all the old NM not
> >> NM-B, and for extra goodness some of it has a 16AWG ground. Is this a
> >> big deal? Repulling it is not the end of the world, just a minor
> >> PITA. I know it's not the best it could be, but ISTM that it should
> >> be acceptable...
>
> >> Oddly enough, this whole line of thought was prompted by the light at
> >> the bottom of the stairs going out as I was pulling a piece of Romex
> >> through the same space. Whenever I knocked against one of the pieces
> >> of BX going into the ceiling box (I was reaching above the ceiling
> >> space between the studs) the light would go out, and then when I
> >> touched it again it would come back on. I figured this needed
> >> immediate attention, and I just imagined that I'd find that I'd have
> >> to repull all of the runs that entered the box due to it being fried.
> >> Imagine my surprise when I pulled it down and everything looked fine
> >> inside, but when I removed the lampholder itself the neutral screw was
> >> loose. OK, reinstall, works. Left it dangling from the wires and
> >> carefully wiggled the two wire nuts inside the box. When I wiggled
> >> the neutral, the light would flicker. Not good! removed wire nut,
> >> here it didn't have any spiral steel insert and was very loose on the
> >> wires. Some electrician - presumably back in 1948! - didn't notice
> >> it, and here it was to freak me out 60 years later... A new wire nut
> >> out of the electrical drawer and all is working fine now :)
>
> >> nate
>
> >> (getting in practice for all the hidden work...)
>
> > Well the old BX in my previous house had for a 15 amp circuit a wire
> > feeding the dining room and living room, all the outlets and overhead
> > lights, then it went up to the second floor and ran 3 bedrooms outlets
> > and lights and the bathroom and a hall closet light. That I would
> > replace with Romex with additional circuits.
>
> That's not an issue... at least not one pertinent to my question. This
> circuit serves only the basement lights, period - so when all is said
> and done there'll be two troffers, two shop lights, and one fixture on
> the circuit. Now the second floor, that's a different story - I do have
> one 15A circuit serving three bedrooms, the bath, and a hallway.
> That'll all get replaced with at least three circuits pulled in new
> Romex (one 20A for the bath and the rest split into two circuits)
>
> nate
>
> --
> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Leave it. Better to have the metal jacket to shield it from damage.
If it ain't broke...

JK

Posted by RBM on February 26, 2008, 7:08 am

> Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring? Old BX or new Romex?
> I'm really not sure which should be preferable. BX has cloth covered
> insulators and just the little strip for ground, but it is working well
> (was working on a switch hot and accidentally touched the box, the lights
> were off almost simultaneously with the spark - woops. Just for the record
> I was wearing my work boots and was careful not to let my hands touch
> anything metal; I just didn't realize that the switch I was using was
> almost as wide as a single gang box...) cloth covered insulation appears
> to be in good shape. I like the damage resistance of the BX, but I also
> like the higher temperature rating of the new NM-B.
>
> I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any; new
> NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference? I know the right
> answer to the question is "use new BX with 90C insulation and a separate
> ground wire" but... um... you priced BX lately? I am definitely replacing
> a few runs with romex to allow for a 3-way switch on the stairwell light
> and will be replacing a couple lampholders with shop lights (cheap 'n'
> sleazy, just using short fixture whips out of the blank plate of the
> octagon box, there's no ceiling in the laundry room and won't be until
> *ALL* the wiring is done)
>
> Also, in situations where someone's already been there and pulled
> somewhat-newer Romex, do you generally consider it acceptable to
> "repurpose" it if it runs where I need it? This is all the old NM not
> NM-B, and for extra goodness some of it has a 16AWG ground. Is this a big
> deal? Repulling it is not the end of the world, just a minor PITA. I know
> it's not the best it could be, but ISTM that it should be acceptable...
>
> Oddly enough, this whole line of thought was prompted by the light at the
> bottom of the stairs going out as I was pulling a piece of Romex through
> the same space. Whenever I knocked against one of the pieces of BX going
> into the ceiling box (I was reaching above the ceiling space between the
> studs) the light would go out, and then when I touched it again it would
> come back on. I figured this needed immediate attention, and I just
> imagined that I'd find that I'd have to repull all of the runs that
> entered the box due to it being fried. Imagine my surprise when I pulled
> it down and everything looked fine inside, but when I removed the
> lampholder itself the neutral screw was loose. OK, reinstall, works.
> Left it dangling from the wires and carefully wiggled the two wire nuts
> inside the box. When I wiggled the neutral, the light would flicker. Not
> good! removed wire nut, here it didn't have any spiral steel insert and
> was very loose on the wires. Some electrician - presumably back in
> 1948! - didn't notice it, and here it was to freak me out 60 years
> later... A new wire nut out of the electrical drawer and all is working
> fine now :)
>
> nate
>
> (getting in practice for all the hidden work...)
>
> --
> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
> http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Old cloth covered AC cable was in my opinion, the worst of all building
cables. Anything would be better



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