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Old BX or new Romex? What would you do? Nate Nagel 02-25-2008
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Posted by Nate Nagel on February 26, 2008, 7:21 pm
HerHusband wrote:
>>Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring?
>>Old BX or new Romex?
>
>
> My personal preference would be new Romex installed through holes drilled
> in the joists (NOT stapled to a beam or the underside of the joists). If
> the BX is not stapled in place, you can use the old cable to pull the new
> Romex through.
>
> If drilling the joists is not an option, I would use surface mounted PVC
> conduit and individual wires.
>
> On the other hand, if the original BX cable is still in good shape, there's
> no immediate need to replace it. Just replace it where needed and update
> the rest to Romex as time and money allows.
>
> That said, I've heard local codes in some areas require conduit or metallic
> shielding for ALL wiring. I think the Chicago area was one of them, but I
> don't remember for sure. You might want to check with your local permit
> office (and probably get an electrical permit).
>
>
>>I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any;
>>new NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference?
>
>
> Lower temperature wiring can be a big problem around light fixtures. The
> heat from the light makes the insulation brittle, which flakes off and
> leaves exposed conductors. I've worked on lots of lights in old houses that
> have completely bare wires, just waiting to start a fire. Kind of scary
> when you open it up and see that.
>
> Still, you don't necessarily need to replace the entire run. Just mount a
> junction box nearby and run the higher temp Romex from the light to the
> junction box. Then tie the old cable into that and join the two cables in
> the box. Replace the circuit later when you have the time.
>
> Anthony

The way this house was wired, it appears to be one of those areas where
BX was only required in "exposed" areas, that is, the basement. The
rest of the house is non-metallic. I'd actually be happier if the whole
house were BX as at least then it would be grounded, if not well. So I
can replace the BX easily as it only exists in exposed areas.

I have not asked the question yet, but judging by the presence of Romex
all over the place where things have been messed with (some not so well,
and already removed) the requirement for BX in the basement was
apparently lifted long ago. There apparently was a permit pulled for
some renovation about 20 years ago, either kitchen or basement I assume,
so it must have been inspected and passed.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

AppliancePartsPros.com, Inc.
Posted by RBM on February 26, 2008, 8:26 pm

> HerHusband wrote:
>>>Which would you rather see in a basement for wiring?
>>>Old BX or new Romex?
>>
>>
>> My personal preference would be new Romex installed through holes drilled
>> in the joists (NOT stapled to a beam or the underside of the joists). If
>> the BX is not stapled in place, you can use the old cable to pull the new
>> Romex through.
>>
>> If drilling the joists is not an option, I would use surface mounted PVC
>> conduit and individual wires.
>>
>> On the other hand, if the original BX cable is still in good shape,
>> there's no immediate need to replace it. Just replace it where needed and
>> update the rest to Romex as time and money allows.
>>
>> That said, I've heard local codes in some areas require conduit or
>> metallic shielding for ALL wiring. I think the Chicago area was one of
>> them, but I don't remember for sure. You might want to check with your
>> local permit office (and probably get an electrical permit).
>>
>>
>>>I'm certain that the old cloth had a 60C temperature rating if any; new
>>>NM-B has 90C. Does it really make a big difference?
>>
>>
>> Lower temperature wiring can be a big problem around light fixtures. The
>> heat from the light makes the insulation brittle, which flakes off and
>> leaves exposed conductors. I've worked on lots of lights in old houses
>> that have completely bare wires, just waiting to start a fire. Kind of
>> scary when you open it up and see that.
>>
>> Still, you don't necessarily need to replace the entire run. Just mount a
>> junction box nearby and run the higher temp Romex from the light to the
>> junction box. Then tie the old cable into that and join the two cables in
>> the box. Replace the circuit later when you have the time.
>>
>> Anthony
>
> The way this house was wired, it appears to be one of those areas where BX
> was only required in "exposed" areas, that is, the basement. The rest of
> the house is non-metallic. I'd actually be happier if the whole house
> were BX as at least then it would be grounded, if not well. So I can
> replace the BX easily as it only exists in exposed areas.
>
> I have not asked the question yet, but judging by the presence of Romex
> all over the place where things have been messed with (some not so well,
> and already removed) the requirement for BX in the basement was apparently
> lifted long ago. There apparently was a permit pulled for some renovation
> about 20 years ago, either kitchen or basement I assume, so it must have
> been inspected and passed.
>
> nate
>
> --
> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
> http://members.cox.net/njnagel

If there is or was any requirement for steel cable in the basement, it was a
local requirement



Posted by HerHusband on February 27, 2008, 9:51 am
Nate,

> The way this house was wired, it appears to be one of those areas
> where BX was only required in "exposed" areas, that is, the basement.

If the cable is "exposed", such as running down a wall to an outlet you
would still need some kind of protection. BX cable would comply, as would
conduit.

Normally, you wouldn't want to run Romex in conduit, as it can build up
heat. But it's allowed by code for short runs for "protection" purposes. I
installed a circuit in my in-laws basement. The main runs are 12/2 romex
running through holes in the joists. Anywhere I had to drop down to an
outlet, I installed a short drop of 3/4" PVC conduit and a surface mount
PVC electrical box. At the top of the conduit I installed a male adapter
and a screw on bushing to protect against chafing.

Anthony

Posted by on February 27, 2008, 10:34 am
On Feb 26, 2:47=A0am, letter...@invalid.com wrote:
> wrote:
>
> >the two wire nuts inside the box. =A0When I wiggled the neutral, the ligh=
t
> >would flicker. =A0Not good! =A0removed wire nut, here it didn't have any
> >spiral steel insert and was very loose on the wires. =A0Some electrician =
-
> >presumably back in 1948! - didn't notice it, and here it was to freak me
> >out 60 years later... =A0A new wire nut out of the electrical drawer and
> >all is working fine now :)
>
> An electrician is supposed to check to be sure the metal spiral is
> inside each and every wirenut. =A0This guy must have been drinking on
> the job. =A0

L:
Maybe there never was a spring. It could be an old porcelain wirenut.
Of course, in that case, the wires should have been twisted tightly
enough
beforehand to make good contact.

> That BX and all older cloth coated wire was not as bad as
> many people want to make it out to be. I have worked on some that was
> 70 years old and still in good shape. The biggest problem was the
> color came off the white or red. Colored electrical tape helps with
> that. If it lasted that long, no one can say it was junk. Will
> today's new wire last that long? I guess no one will know until then.
> Plastic gets old and dry and will crack in time too.

I wonder about this, too. I have one circuit with some plastic Romex
that
is old enough to have a 16 gauge grounding conductor. It's gotten
pretty
hard over the years - not enough to be brittle...not yet. Of course,
THHN's
nylon jacket should last a very long time, even if the thermoplastic
layer is
compromised.

A P

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