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Outlet tester puzzle

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Subject Author Date
Outlet tester puzzle Percival P. Cassidy 12-01-2006
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Posted by Percival P. Cassidy on December 1, 2006, 3:04 pm


I just replaced a regular outlet by a GFCI outlet. A GB outlet tester
with GFCI tester shows that there is no ground (just the same as before
I changed the outlet -- I'll try to solve that problem later: there is a
bare copper wire connected to the metal box and to the outlet's green
screw, but it must be disconnected at the other end), BUT pressing the
outlet tester's GFCI Test button still trips the breaker. I thought that
a ground connection was necessary for the test button to work.

Perce

Posted by CJT on December 1, 2006, 3:23 pm


Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

> I just replaced a regular outlet by a GFCI outlet. A GB outlet tester
> with GFCI tester shows that there is no ground (just the same as before
> I changed the outlet -- I'll try to solve that problem later: there is a
> bare copper wire connected to the metal box and to the outlet's green
> screw, but it must be disconnected at the other end), BUT pressing the
> outlet tester's GFCI Test button still trips the breaker. I thought that
> a ground connection was necessary for the test button to work.
>
> Perce

Nope.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.

Posted by Chris Friesen on December 1, 2006, 3:46 pm


CJT wrote:
> Percival P. Cassidy wrote:

>> BUT pressing the outlet tester's GFCI Test button still trips the
>> breaker. I thought that a ground connection was necessary for the test
>> button to work.

> Nope.

According to the diagrams here

http://www.codecheck.com/gfci_principal.htm

the test button diverts some current from hot to ground to cause the
hot/neutral conductors to not carry the same amount of current. Without
a ground, how would the test button work? Where does the diverted
current go?

Chris

Posted by Chris Friesen on December 1, 2006, 3:51 pm


Chris Friesen wrote:

> According to the diagrams here
>
> http://www.codecheck.com/gfci_principal.htm
>
> the test button diverts some current from hot to ground to cause the
> hot/neutral conductors to not carry the same amount of current. Without
> a ground, how would the test button work? Where does the diverted
> current go?

Doh...should learn to research first. Found an alternate design where
the test button diverts some current around the sensing toroid back to
neutral such that the toroid sees unbalanced current even though it is
actually balanced for the receptacle as a whole.

Works just fine with no real ground.

Chris

Posted by Tom Horne, Electrician on December 1, 2006, 4:29 pm


Chris Friesen wrote:
> Chris Friesen wrote:
>
>> According to the diagrams here
>>
>> http://www.codecheck.com/gfci_principal.htm
>>
>> the test button diverts some current from hot to ground to cause the
>> hot/neutral conductors to not carry the same amount of current.
>> Without a ground, how would the test button work? Where does the
>> diverted current go?
>
> Doh...should learn to research first. Found an alternate design where
> the test button diverts some current around the sensing toroid back to
> neutral such that the toroid sees unbalanced current even though it is
> actually balanced for the receptacle as a whole.
>
> Works just fine with no real ground.
>
> Chris

Chris
That scheme only applies to the built in test circuit in the GFCI
itself. A plug in tester does indeed need a ground in order to work but
the ground only has to be good enough to carry six milliamperes. That
would not make it a satisfactory low impedance pathway back to the
source via the main bonding jumper.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison

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