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Posted by BobK207 on October 23, 2007, 1:01 pm
On Oct 23, 9:13 am, alvinamo...@notmail.com wrote:
> >> OK, I posted about PEX clamping. I made the mistake of stating my
> >> opinion about it, which is not in favor of it. Thus the whole
> >> discussion thread went in that direction and the original point of my
> >> post was lost.
>
> >> So, I am posting it again, with the intended question.
>
> >> I'm sure that in time there will be cheap generic crimp tools being
> >> sold that only cost $19.99, but even at that, everyone owns a
> >> screwdriver and with hose clamps being readily available, easy to
> >> install, and much easier to remove than the PEX clamps now being sold,
> >> why not just use hose clamps?
>
> >The Pex clamps I used (see links in my other posting) were actually easier
> >and faster than hose clamps. The point about the tool cost is valid, I paid
> >about $100 for mine. I know the ratchet style operation will not release
> >until you get to the correct tension for the clamp, then it will not let you
> >go further. This calibration makes the use idiotproof, which would be a
> >boon to many folks working with plumbing (at least Pex).
>
> >The one advantage of a pipe clamp might be that you can add one around an
> >installed conection, with the Pex clamp you need to remember to slide it
> >onto the tubing before fasterning to the connector. It's surprisingly tough
> >to pull the Pex off the connector in tight spots.
>
> >So if you object to purchasing a tool specially designed for the job, try
> >pipe clamps. I spent $100 on the tool, it took me 5-6 seconds to do each
> >clamp connection, and I had zero leaks in maybe 100 connectors throughout
> >the place. I had to take off some clamps when I plumbed a valve wrong and
> >also when I retrofitted a water filter. They are extremely easy to remove
> >with a good set of snips. Just remember to position the crimp to make it
> >available to get teh snips on. Not all Pex clamps I have seen work the same
> >way, but these ones were a snap.
>
> >IMHO, the tool was worth it for me, maybe not for everybody. The plastic
> >clamps you described in your other post would give me absolute nightmares.
>
> >Cheers
> >Gary
>
> I never said anything about plastic clamps. I am referring to
> stainless steel hose clamps used to connect (for example) a gas line
> to a fuel pump or carb in a car.
>
> I will agree that the tool is probably quicker than turning a screw on
> a hose clamp, but if it takes me 20 seconds to turn a screw V/S the 5
> seconds you spend, that's real minor compared to the cost of the tool.
> Lets say you install 50 clamps. That would be 250 seconds with the
> tool, (or 4+ minutes), or 1000 seconds (16+ minutes) with screw
> clamps. That's 12 minutes difference. I'd have to earn hundreds of
> dollars per hour to justify that. Sure, this will pay off for a
> plumber, but not a homeowner. Actually, for myself, owning the tool
> will actually pay to own because I am always doing some sort of
> plumbing for myself or others. But for rthe average homeowner, it
> wont pay at all if screw type hose clamps are the other option.
>
> How you can cut them with a snips without cutting into the pipe itself
> is beyond me. The problem starts when there are several clamp styles
> available. I'd like to see the ones you use. Please post a photo or
> web link to one. The ones I originally saw were just solid rings,
> like a wedding ring, with nothing sticking out. Now I have seen the
> ones with the tabs on the side that look like a hose clamp without the
> screw and are probably stainless steel.
>
> Like another poster said, will PEX become another situation like
> aluminum wiring? And even if the pipe itself is durable and long
> lasting, there is still no standard with the clamps. There are
> several types. So even if I do decide to buy the tool, I'll wait till
> they come up with a standard, or I may end up using Beta tapes when
> everyone is using VHS, and end up with a costly useless tool.
>
> THIS MESSAGE WAS APPROVED BY GOD
OP-
Check out the expander system......tools can be had reasonably on Ebay
I bought a hand expander w/ 1/2", 3/4" & 1" expander tips.
At first I was worried that the hand expander was going to be too
slow. But even with the hand expander I can easily make a PEX
connection faster than I can clean 1/2 of a copper joint. With the
home run design I had 32 (total) PEX joints for 2 baths, kitchen &
laundry room.
Plumbers use the pneumatic or battery powered expander......they are a
little faster but its mostly for ease of use (read: reliable and
repeatable)
The comparison of crimp rings to screw hose clamps is NOT
speed.................it is reliable and repeatable
results.
PEX is not (at this point) a DIY product unless you know what you're
doing.
So if the tools are a barrier to DIY use of PEX maybe that's not a bad
thing.
Consider the expander system (WIrsbo PEX), they've been around a long
time & they sell tons of PEX. The expander system has been around for
a long time & the installed base of tools is pretty extensive.
I doubt its going the way of BetaMax
See if you can borrow or even just see it being used. Make up some
joints & play with them. They're strong...just use the brass fittings
not the plastic onesss.
I was skeptical when I first was considering the PEX expander
system.
When I got my suuplies & tools, I made up some joints. I tried to
blow them up with my compressor. I pressured the PEX & even put in
hot water.
Couldn't get anything to fail. Of course I only went to 110 psi &
probably about 120F.
I was satisfies, PEX is a clean easy system.
About PEX becoming the next "aluminim wiring" problem. I had a
friend (a builder) tell me about PEX ~10 years ago when he was leaving
CA for TX. I haven't heard any horror stories (yet).
cheers
Bob
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