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Plumbing code question anthonymmfalcone 11-01-2007
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Posted by DerbyDad03 on November 1, 2007, 12:21 pm
> DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
>
>
> > re: Aren't wet stacks only allowed on the same floor?
>
> > I hope not! My 2nd floor bathroom, 1st floor sink and 4 basement
> > fixtures (full bath and utility sink) all use the same wet stack.
> > There are no dedicated vents for any fixtures in my house.
>
> > The 1st and 2nd floor fixtures drain into the cast iron vertical stack
> > and the basement fixtures all connect to the cast iron drain pipe
> > under the slab. Everything works fine as far as I can tell. The only
> > drainage problems I've ever had in 24 years were caused by roots in
> > the town owned section of the drain out by the street.
>
> There is/was an exception in the case where the soil stack
> is 4" size. In this case, the 1st floor and 2nd floor
> toilets may join the stack without additional venting.
> Lav trap could empty above the uppermost toilet.
>
> Today, you probably couldn't do things like this,
> but it was accepted practice and did work.
>
> Jim

I believe the cast soil stack is 4" so I guess my house is
exceptional. :-)

However, this statement confuses me: "Lav trap could empty above the
uppermost toilet"

The uppermost toilet is on the second floor, and obviously the toilet
drain is on the floor. How could anything empty *above* this?

Both the sink and tub empty into the pipe that the toilet sits on,
just a few inches below the shoe.


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Posted by Speedy Jim on November 1, 2007, 12:52 pm
DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>> <SNIP>
>>
>>
>>
>>> re: Aren't wet stacks only allowed on the same floor?
>>> I hope not! My 2nd floor bathroom, 1st floor sink and 4 basement
>>> fixtures (full bath and utility sink) all use the same wet stack.
>>> There are no dedicated vents for any fixtures in my house.
>>> The 1st and 2nd floor fixtures drain into the cast iron vertical stack
>>> and the basement fixtures all connect to the cast iron drain pipe
>>> under the slab. Everything works fine as far as I can tell. The only
>>> drainage problems I've ever had in 24 years were caused by roots in
>>> the town owned section of the drain out by the street.
>> There is/was an exception in the case where the soil stack
>> is 4" size. In this case, the 1st floor and 2nd floor
>> toilets may join the stack without additional venting.
>> Lav trap could empty above the uppermost toilet.
>>
>> Today, you probably couldn't do things like this,
>> but it was accepted practice and did work.
>>
>> Jim
>
> I believe the cast soil stack is 4" so I guess my house is
> exceptional. :-)
>
> However, this statement confuses me: "Lav trap could empty above the
> uppermost toilet"
>
> The uppermost toilet is on the second floor, and obviously the toilet
> drain is on the floor. How could anything empty *above* this?
>
> Both the sink and tub empty into the pipe that the toilet sits on,
> just a few inches below the shoe.
>

Ah. That's a side-inlet to the "closet bend".
It wouldn't normally be done without some vent
provision, but could have been allowed by local
exception. It worked and that was the ultimate test.

Over the years, every state/county had their own
interpretation of what constituted good practice.
Unlike the Electrical Code, we never had just one
plumbing code.

Jim

Posted by Speedy Jim on November 1, 2007, 11:29 am
anthonymmfalcone@yahoo.com wrote:
> Dear Readers,
>
> I need advice on a plumbing code question. My existing 1st floor
> bathroom vanity appears to use the drain from the 2nd floor toilet as
> a vent stack. Appears that both 1st and 2nd floor toilets have no
> other fixtures draining into their respective drains.
>
> Question: does the plumbing code allow me to route the 1st floor
> vanity drain into the same drain from the 2nd floor toilet (which is
> being used as a vent for the same vanity)? Or must I continue to have
> a dedicated drain for toilet?
>
> See sketch at:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2416/1814061886_24cf91d8d3_b_d.jpg
> (If this is not the appropriate way to reference an image on this
> newsgroup, please advise and I'll change).
>
> Your comments are appreciated.
> Regards,
>
> Anthony
>


I have a little trouble following your sketch.
Where is the roof vent terminal?

In any case, NO the Lav vent can not be tied into
the stack *below* any toilet. This is not what
is meant by a "wet vent".

The Lav vent must be extended up thru the 2nd floor
to a point above the toilet connection or else
have its own vent thru the roof.

Jim

Posted by on November 1, 2007, 12:03 pm
> I have a little trouble following your sketch.
> Where is the roof vent terminal?
>
> In any case, NO the Lav vent can not be tied into
> the stack *below* any toilet. This is not what
> is meant by a "wet vent".
>
> The Lav vent must be extended up thru the 2nd floor
> to a point above the toilet connection or else
> have its own vent thru the roof.
>
> Jim-

Your question of "where is the roof vent terminal" for the lav is
exactly why I find the existing condition peculiar: the 1st floor lav
vent ties directly into the stack *below* the 2nd floor toilet. If
this layout is not the definition of a "wet vent", I think I'll have
to extend the vent up as you suggest (please confirm).

Then, assuming the vent is rerouted and the issue resolved, is there
any restriction you can think of against tying the lav drain directly
into the stack below the 2nd floor toilet per the proposed sketch?



Posted by Speedy Jim on November 1, 2007, 12:54 pm
anthonymmfalcone@yahoo.com wrote:
>> I have a little trouble following your sketch.
>> Where is the roof vent terminal?
>>
>> In any case, NO the Lav vent can not be tied into
>> the stack *below* any toilet. This is not what
>> is meant by a "wet vent".
>>
>> The Lav vent must be extended up thru the 2nd floor
>> to a point above the toilet connection or else
>> have its own vent thru the roof.
>>
>> Jim-
>
> Your question of "where is the roof vent terminal" for the lav is
> exactly why I find the existing condition peculiar: the 1st floor lav
> vent ties directly into the stack *below* the 2nd floor toilet. If
> this layout is not the definition of a "wet vent", I think I'll have
> to extend the vent up as you suggest (please confirm).
>
> Then, assuming the vent is rerouted and the issue resolved, is there
> any restriction you can think of against tying the lav drain directly
> into the stack below the 2nd floor toilet per the proposed sketch?
>
>

Yes, extend the vent up.
Once the Lav is vented properly, the drain
can tie in below another fixture (such as the toilet).

Jim

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