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Power for table saw question 120 or 220?

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Power for table saw question 120 or 220? Dave 08-08-2005
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Posted by Ulysses on August 8, 2005, 8:49 pm



>
> >I bought a new table saw and I can run it on 120 or 220, However, they
> > recommend 220. What does running it on 220 buy me over 120? Thanks for
> > your
> > opinions.
>
> >
> Faster starting, less likely to bog down. Same operating cost. Smaller
wire
> size. A few Delta saws have a different set of windings and you get 2 HP
> instead of 1.5
>
> Separate circuit is always a plus. When I first go my saw I wanted to try
> it out before hte new line was installed. I hit the switch and the
> fluorescent lights went out for maybe 5 seconds until the saw got up to
> speed. Scary. Next day I ran the new line. .
>
>

Just curious because I've never worked in a shop with fluorescent lights,
but is it true that the blade on a saw can appear to be stopped due to the
60 cycle strobing of the lights?




Radiant Heat 468x60
Posted by Ken on August 9, 2005, 9:17 am



Ulysses wrote:
> >
> > >I bought a new table saw and I can run it on 120 or 220, However, they
> > > recommend 220. What does running it on 220 buy me over 120? Thanks for
> > > your
> > > opinions.
> >
> > >
> > Faster starting, less likely to bog down. Same operating cost. Smaller
> wire
> > size. A few Delta saws have a different set of windings and you get 2 HP
> > instead of 1.5
> >
> > Separate circuit is always a plus. When I first go my saw I wanted to try
> > it out before hte new line was installed. I hit the switch and the
> > fluorescent lights went out for maybe 5 seconds until the saw got up to
> > speed. Scary. Next day I ran the new line. .
> >
> >
>
> Just curious because I've never worked in a shop with fluorescent lights,
> but is it true that the blade on a saw can appear to be stopped due to the
> 60 cycle strobing of the lights?

A tidbit that some people might be interested in:

Fluorescent lights will flicker at twice the AC frequency, which would
be 120 Hz for North America. You get two cycles of the light
flickering for each AC cycle because the current flows one way and the
light comes on, then the current goes to zero and the light goes out,
and then flows the other way and the light comes on again. The light
doesn't care which way the curernt is flowing. In theory this happens
with other light sources such as a regular tungsten bulb, but you never
see the flicker in a tungsten bulb because the glowing filament doesn't
cool off quick enough to see any flickering.

A calibrated strobe light is one way to measure the rotational speed of
things. For the case of the table saw, you would gradually adjust the
strobe rate until you got the blade to "freeze". What is really
happening is that the blade moved in integer number of teeth from one
flash to the next. The problem is that you don't know if it moved one
tooth or two teeth, or whatever. You then change the strobe light
frequency until you get the blade to "freeze" again. There is some
procedure and calculations that are used to determine the rotational
speed of the saw based on the strobe frequencies that froze the blade,
but it's been too long since I have done that and I'd have to think too
hard right now to remember how that part works.

So there's today's science lesson.

Ken



Posted by Ulysses on August 9, 2005, 11:17 am



>
> Ulysses wrote:
> > >
> > > >I bought a new table saw and I can run it on 120 or 220, However,
they
> > > > recommend 220. What does running it on 220 buy me over 120? Thanks
for
> > > > your
> > > > opinions.
> > >
> > > >
> > > Faster starting, less likely to bog down. Same operating cost.
Smaller
> > wire
> > > size. A few Delta saws have a different set of windings and you get 2
HP
> > > instead of 1.5
> > >
> > > Separate circuit is always a plus. When I first go my saw I wanted to
try
> > > it out before hte new line was installed. I hit the switch and the
> > > fluorescent lights went out for maybe 5 seconds until the saw got up
to
> > > speed. Scary. Next day I ran the new line. .
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Just curious because I've never worked in a shop with fluorescent
lights,
> > but is it true that the blade on a saw can appear to be stopped due to
the
> > 60 cycle strobing of the lights?
>
> A tidbit that some people might be interested in:
>
> Fluorescent lights will flicker at twice the AC frequency, which would
> be 120 Hz for North America. You get two cycles of the light
> flickering for each AC cycle because the current flows one way and the
> light comes on, then the current goes to zero and the light goes out,
> and then flows the other way and the light comes on again. The light
> doesn't care which way the curernt is flowing. In theory this happens
> with other light sources such as a regular tungsten bulb, but you never
> see the flicker in a tungsten bulb because the glowing filament doesn't
> cool off quick enough to see any flickering.
>
> A calibrated strobe light is one way to measure the rotational speed of
> things. For the case of the table saw, you would gradually adjust the
> strobe rate until you got the blade to "freeze". What is really
> happening is that the blade moved in integer number of teeth from one
> flash to the next. The problem is that you don't know if it moved one
> tooth or two teeth, or whatever. You then change the strobe light
> frequency until you get the blade to "freeze" again. There is some
> procedure and calculations that are used to determine the rotational
> speed of the saw based on the strobe frequencies that froze the blade,
> but it's been too long since I have done that and I'd have to think too
> hard right now to remember how that part works.
>
> So there's today's science lesson.
>
> Ken
>

So then if a saw blade is rotating at a speed which is a multiple of 120
(such as 4800 rpm) then it could appear to be stopped, right?




Posted by Ken on August 10, 2005, 4:58 am



Ulysses wrote:
> So then if a saw blade is rotating at a speed which is a multiple of 120
> (such as 4800 rpm) then it could appear to be stopped, right?

Yes. Say you had marked one tooth on the saw blade with red paint,
then the saw blade would have rotated 4800/120 = 40 times around
between each "flash" of the fluorescent light, and you would see that
red tooth appear to stand still. For this example, if the saw was
going a little bit faster or slower, you could see it freeze with 39 or
41 revolutions for 39 * 120 = 4680 RPM or 41 * 120 = 4920 RPM.
Rotational speed between these RPM numbers would not result in any
freezing action, so for this example you can see that the effect is
rather sensitive to slight variations in the RPMs of the saw blade.

If you didn't mark one saw tooth, then this sitation becomes even more
sensitive to slight variations in RPMs. Say there are 40 identical
teeth on the saw blade, so each tooth is 1/40th of a revolution (=
0.025). At 4800 RPM, you will freeze the blade because it is exactly
40 revolutions, but you can also freeze the blade with exactly 40.025
revolutions, which would be 40.025 * 120 = 4803 RPM, because on the
next flash of the fluorescent light the adjacent saw blade tooth will
be in the same position as the first saw blade tooth was on the first
fluorescent light flash. So you can freeze the blade at 4800 RPM or
4803 RPM, but between those speeds there will be no freezing.

Ken



Posted by ~^Johnny^~ on August 12, 2005, 8:31 am


-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


>Fluorescent lights will flicker at twice the AC frequency, which
>would be 120 Hz for North America.

Only the old ones with mag ballasts. The newer ones are usually
electronic, and run in the tens of kilohertz. :-)


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Version: PGP 7.1

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=2+c4
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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info


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