Problem with well not delivering water

Posted by on October 13, 2009, 7:16 pm

wrote:

> On Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:50:46 -0400, Frank wrote:

> > When my pressure drops to zero during something like a power failure, I
> > need to shut off valve to house, past pressure tank, to turn back on as
> > pump needs a pressure head to pump against otherwise low pressure turns
> > it off.

> For ours, I believe the pump body needs to be opened (there's a cap on
> top) and the pump manually topped off with water if it ever runs dry -
> running it once it's bled down not only results in no water flow, but
> apparently also trashes the seals in the pump (or so the manufacturers
> claim).
> I missed the start of this thread - not sure if the 'hum' the OP mentions
> means they think the pump motor *is* running, or if they mean (as someone
> else mentioned) that they're hearing the hum of the motor trying to start
> but failing (possibly because there's a start capacitor that's shot)
> I'm not at all familiar with wells where the pump's right at the well hea=

d

It's not at the well head. It's a submersible 300 ft down the well.

> (ours is a jet pump, with the motor/pump some distance from the head) but
> maybe it's possible to confirm whether the motor *is* turning (and/or try
> turning it by hand to make sure the pump's not jammed)?
> cheers
> Jules

Posted by gwandsh on October 13, 2009, 9:49 pm

> This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
> bacteria issues. =A0Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
> amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
> into the well head. =A0Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
> smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
> sit for the night.
> The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
> morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. =A0However, when I
> got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. =A0When I turn on
> the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
> delivered to the pressure tank.
> I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. =A0I can
> hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
> With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
> really is.
> It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
> (or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
> from being delivered. =A0Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
> without special equipment? =A0I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
> nd has worked flawlessly for years.

Thanks all for the good input. I appreciate knowing something about
the possibilities when I finally reach the well contractor. I have a
couple of calls in to him, but it is a small town rural area and he
doesn't seem to be getting his calls. Possibly he has gone hunting
and did not leave an "out of office" message. It is a weekend place,
so service calls mean time off work, yada yada.

To clarify a few items:

1 - I first suspected the mechainical relay in the pressure switch. I
opened the box and cleaned the contacts. They seem to be working
fine, at least they are getting the pump turned on.

2 - I did check the power at the well head. I did not have a voltage
meter, but used a simple outlet tester (pencil style chirper) to
determine there was juice in the line. If somehow only 110/120 was
getting down to the pump, is it possible it would only pump partway up
the piping?

3 - We have high iron content in the water (partial reason for the
treatment). I wondered if there had been a small leak in the steel
pipe (yes it is steel, at least the top few sections that I have seen)
that might have been plugged with oxidized iron. Perhaps the bleach
then dissolved or loosened the "plug" enough to cause it to open?

4 - To the responder that concluded the pump is shot... I guess
anything is possible, but when my car doesn't start I don't
immediately shop for a new car ;-)

5 - I was having a tough time figuring out how the pressure could have
gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
well failure. Sounds like the two events need to be researched
separately. As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
integrated into the pressure tank?

6 - to the person who asked about the strength of the bleach used: We
used a standard 5.5% product, mixed with water. According to our well
report we have about 200' of water in a 6" column, and we used 8 cups
of bleach. I guess that could be an overdose if the water level had
dropped, but I have no reason to suspect that is the case.

Thanks again

Posted by theedudenator on October 13, 2009, 11:59 pm

I just had the same problem, expect I still had some pressure.
Loss of pressure to 30psi
Pump was running constantly and never got above 30psi
Cut power and pressure went directly to 0psi

It ended up being the connector that goes from the house to the well
pipe.
Saddle valve coupling.
It had corroded and caused a leak internal to the well pipe.

> > This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
> > bacteria issues. =A0Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
> > amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
> > into the well head. =A0Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
> > smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
> > sit for the night.
> > The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
> > morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. =A0However, when I
> > got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. =A0When I turn on
> > the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
> > delivered to the pressure tank.
> > I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. =A0I can
> > hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
> > With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
> > really is.
> > It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
> > (or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
> > from being delivered. =A0Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
> > without special equipment? =A0I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,=

> > nd has worked flawlessly for years.

> Thanks all for the good input. =A0I appreciate knowing something about
> the possibilities when I finally reach the well contractor. =A0I have a
> couple of calls in to him, but it is a small town rural area and he
> doesn't seem to be getting his calls. =A0Possibly he has gone hunting
> and did not leave an "out of office" message. =A0It is a weekend place,
> so service calls mean time off work, yada yada.
> To clarify a few items:
> 1 - I first suspected the mechainical relay in the pressure switch. =A0I
> opened the box and cleaned the contacts. =A0They seem to be working
> fine, at least they are getting the pump turned on.
> 2 - I did check the power at the well head. =A0I did not have a voltage
> meter, but used a simple outlet tester (pencil style chirper) to
> determine there was juice in the line. =A0If somehow only 110/120 was
> getting down to the pump, is it possible it would only pump partway up
> the piping?
> 3 - We have high iron content in the water (partial reason for the
> treatment). =A0I wondered if there had been a small leak in the steel
> pipe (yes it is steel, at least the top few sections that I have seen)
> that might have been plugged with oxidized iron. =A0Perhaps the bleach
> then dissolved or loosened the "plug" enough to cause it to open?
> 4 - To the responder that concluded the pump is shot... I guess
> anything is possible, but when my car doesn't start I don't
> immediately shop for a new car ;-)
> 5 - I was having a tough time figuring out how the pressure could have
> gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
> well failure. =A0Sounds like the two events need to be researched
> separately. =A0As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
> from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
> and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
> integrated into the pressure tank?
> 6 - to the person who asked about the strength of the bleach used: =A0We
> used a standard 5.5% product, mixed with water. =A0According to our well
> report we have about 200' of water in a 6" column, and we used 8 cups
> of bleach. =A0I guess that could be an overdose if the water level had
> dropped, but I have no reason to suspect that is the case.
> Thanks again

Posted by RBM on October 14, 2009, 7:04 am

> > This weekend we did a shock on our ~350' well to address some iron
> > bacteria issues. Followed instructions carefully, adding measured
> > amount of bleach and recirculating well water via garden hose back
> > into the well head. Then we ran each faucet slightly untilI we could
> > smell chlorine, turned it off, turned off the well circuit, and let it
> > sit for the night.
> > The rest of the process was to run things out via hose the next
> > morning, so as to not compromise our septic system. However, when I
> > got up, I found that our pressure tank showed 0 psi. When I turn on
> > the well circuit, I can hear the pump humming, but no water gets
> > delivered to the pressure tank.
> > I took off the well cap again and powered the well circuit. I can
> > hear "activity" in the well, not just the distant vibration or hum.
> > With the echos and such, it is impossible to tell what that sound
> > really is.
> > It seems to me that somehow I have lost the seal prime on my well pump
> > (or have a hole in the delivery pipe) that is preventing the water
> > from being delivered. Anybody know of a way to diagnose this issue
> > without special equipment? I believe the pump is at least 300' deep,a
> > nd has worked flawlessly for years.

> Thanks all for the good input. I appreciate knowing something about
> the possibilities when I finally reach the well contractor. I have a
> couple of calls in to him, but it is a small town rural area and he
> doesn't seem to be getting his calls. Possibly he has gone hunting
> and did not leave an "out of office" message. It is a weekend place,
> so service calls mean time off work, yada yada.
> To clarify a few items:
> 1 - I first suspected the mechainical relay in the pressure switch. I
> opened the box and cleaned the contacts. They seem to be working
> fine, at least they are getting the pump turned on.
> 2 - I did check the power at the well head. I did not have a voltage
> meter, but used a simple outlet tester (pencil style chirper) to
> determine there was juice in the line. If somehow only 110/120 was
> getting down to the pump, is it possible it would only pump partway up
> the piping?
> 3 - We have high iron content in the water (partial reason for the
> treatment). I wondered if there had been a small leak in the steel
> pipe (yes it is steel, at least the top few sections that I have seen)
> that might have been plugged with oxidized iron. Perhaps the bleach
> then dissolved or loosened the "plug" enough to cause it to open?
> 4 - To the responder that concluded the pump is shot... I guess
> anything is possible, but when my car doesn't start I don't
> immediately shop for a new car ;-)
> 5 - I was having a tough time figuring out how the pressure could have
> gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
> well failure. Sounds like the two events need to be researched
> separately. As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
> from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
> and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
> integrated into the pressure tank?
> 6 - to the person who asked about the strength of the bleach used: We
> used a standard 5.5% product, mixed with water. According to our well
> report we have about 200' of water in a 6" column, and we used 8 cups
> of bleach. I guess that could be an overdose if the water level had
> dropped, but I have no reason to suspect that is the case.
> Thanks again

Posted by harry k on October 14, 2009, 12:36 am

<snip>

> gone to zero in our system - at least a reason associated with the
> well failure. =A0Sounds like the two events need to be researched
> separately. =A0As for the valve that prevents the water from flowing bck
> from the pressure tank to the well - is that something I can access
> and check myself? 'Fraid I have no clue about that unless it is
> integrated into the pressure tank?

The normal checkvalve in a submersible is integrated with the pump.
Some systems are installed with a second one above ground. Unless the
pump one has failed I have never understood the rationale of
installing a second one. In your case, look for a fitting in the pipe
(it will be a bit larger than the pipe) that has only the inlet/outlet
and no other connections.

In any case, it would not be the cause of the pump not delivering
water, only not holding pressure when the pump shuts off.

Harry K

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Problem with well not delivering water - Page 4