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Subject Author Date
Quote a contract? Chris Birkett 11-14-2006
| `--> Re: Quote a contract? kellyj00@gmail....11-15-2006
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Posted by RicodJour on November 15, 2006, 11:53 am


Greg wrote:
> I can't see how if he had it apart when he upped it the first time, how he
> could then justify an addtional 1100 bucks, all of which would have to be
> labor as the cost of materials couldn't have gone up that from start to
> finish of the job.

I'm going to take a wild stab at this and guess that you've never done
any remodeling. In any event, regardless of your apparent lack of
experience, you have no information to support your assumptions -
certainly not enough to pass judgment.

I had asked the OP a question which went unanswered. It gets to the
root of the matter. If the father felt comfortable letting the
contractor work unsupervised while he was out of the country, and
agreed that additional work needed to be done due to unforeseen
conditions, why is the son getting involved? Is he "protecting" his
father or just sticking his two cents into something he doesn't
understand?

> I'm in Canada too, lets say he charges $50.00 an hour,
> that's 22 hours of labor, that's 1/2 a chimneys worth on top of the original
> second quote.

They don't charge for materials where you are? Using numbers to
illustrate a bad assumption is worse than the bad assumption. Did the
contractor have additional labor? I'd assume so - putting up a chimney
is rarely done alone, and almost never by a contractor. Two helpers?
What if there was damaged framing that needed to be replaced? Did the
contractor do it himself or hire it out? You see my point. No
information makes for nothing more than a guessing game.

You will not get complete information from the son, as it's his opinion
that the work was unnecessary and it's only one side of the story.
Besides that, he wasn't part of the agreement. Did you wonder why the
father didn't tag the son to be the supervision while he was away?
Kind of curious, no?

R


Posted by Chris Birkett on November 15, 2006, 1:07 pm


RicodJour wrote:
> I had asked the OP a question which went unanswered. It gets to the
> root of the matter. If the father felt comfortable letting the
> contractor work unsupervised while he was out of the country, and
> agreed that additional work needed to be done due to unforeseen
> conditions, why is the son getting involved? Is he "protecting" his
> father or just sticking his two cents into something he doesn't
> understand?

The real root of the matter is that he DIDN'T agree to pay for
additional work. I don't see how my motivation affects this.

> You will not get complete information from the son, as it's his opinion
> that the work was unnecessary and it's only one side of the story.
> Besides that, he wasn't part of the agreement. Did you wonder why the
> father didn't tag the son to be the supervision while he was away?
> Kind of curious, no?

I don't understand why this bothers you so much. When did I say the
work was unnecessary? As it stands, the extra charge has not been
justified at all, and the work has not even been completed to
satisfaction. I *was* dealing with the repair people while he was
gone, and additional costs were never mentioned. Both my mother and I
were readily available to discuss it on any of the several days they
were here, and they knew my dad was available by e-mail.

Chris


Posted by on November 15, 2006, 3:13 pm


On 15 Nov 2006 10:07:18 -0800, "Chris Birkett"

> As it stands, the extra charge has not been
>justified at all, and the work has not even been completed to
>satisfaction. I *was* dealing with the repair people while he was
>gone, and additional costs were never mentioned. Both my mother and I
>were readily available to discuss it on any of the several days they
>were here, and they knew my dad was available by e-mail.


Um, Chris ...

You asked a question -- Is a quote a contract?

And you got the best answer this group can give you -- often it is,
sometimes it isn't.

Here are the elements required to establish a contract --

Offer -- You offer to cut my lawn for ten bucks.

Acceptance -- I say "Great. Thanks. Do it."

Consideration -- Doesn't have to be money. The exchange of promises
is enough.

Capable of interpretation -- The example so far is not a contract,
because it cannot be interpreted -- when? for example.

Competent parties -- Obviously.

Legal purpose -- the purpose has to be legal for the courts to enforce
the contract.

No duress -- I'm not holding a gun to your head.


Now, you can tell us whether or not there is a contract.

The reality is that in most circumstances, having a contract is not
really a lot of help. Being right doesn't really mean much.
Getting a resolution and moving on ... that's what it's about.

A contract only outlines an agreement between willing parties...
and in most cases, the amounts are small compared to the cost of
collection or suing for specific performance.

As to your father's circumstance, you've been answered several times.

1) We don't know, we weren't there.

2) If the work was necessary and was done properly, pay the man.

3) I f the work was unnecessary or was poorly done, don't pay the
man.

If 2) and 3) are uncomfortable, negotiate something in the middle.

Ken


Posted by on November 15, 2006, 3:15 pm



Chris Birkett wrote:
> RicodJour wrote:
> > I had asked the OP a question which went unanswered. It gets to the
> > root of the matter. If the father felt comfortable letting the
> > contractor work unsupervised while he was out of the country, and
> > agreed that additional work needed to be done due to unforeseen
> > conditions, why is the son getting involved? Is he "protecting" his
> > father or just sticking his two cents into something he doesn't
> > understand?
>
> The real root of the matter is that he DIDN'T agree to pay for
> additional work. I don't see how my motivation affects this.
>
> > You will not get complete information from the son, as it's his opinion
> > that the work was unnecessary and it's only one side of the story.
> > Besides that, he wasn't part of the agreement. Did you wonder why the
> > father didn't tag the son to be the supervision while he was away?
> > Kind of curious, no?
>
> I don't understand why this bothers you so much. When did I say the
> work was unnecessary? As it stands, the extra charge has not been
> justified at all, and the work has not even been completed to
> satisfaction. I *was* dealing with the repair people while he was
> gone, and additional costs were never mentioned. Both my mother and I
> were readily available to discuss it on any of the several days they
> were here, and they knew my dad was available by e-mail.
>
> Chris

Lots of sound and fury about not-much here, eh? Let's wrap this up-
ask your dad to work this out with the tradesman, one-on-one, and
maybe info us on the resolution.

We all go through learning experiences, maybe even learn something.

J


Posted by kellyj00@gmail.com on November 16, 2006, 8:42 am


a "contract" is "a meeting of two or more minds in agreement"...
doesn't even require a handshake.

What you are obligated to is the amount of work you told this guy to do
before he took off. There is no question that what he did while you
weren't aroung, and without asking, was not part of the original
agreement nor warranted in any way.

You did not ask him to do an additional $1100 worth of work, plain and
simple... When an electrician comes out and says "I'll wire up that
outlet for $20" then you *technically* arent obligated to pay $20.50 if
he wants to charge you for wire nuts or something.

Get a lawyer for cryin out loud. This has been answered fifteen times
by amatures and tradespeople alike in this forum.


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