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REQ:Breaker Maximum...6AL...?

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REQ:Breaker Maximum...6AL...? Joey_Bitchn' 08-02-2005
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Posted by TURTLE on August 3, 2005, 11:36 pm



> Turtle
>
> I installed the 50 AMP Breaker and so far so good.I've had the A/C on
> all day. The wires aren't even warm. The A/C unit read 37.5 AMP
> minimum so I guess that with the 40 AMP breaker the initial voltage
> drop over a few on/off cycles was enough for the relay not to
> re-engage.
> Thanks for the tip. If you lived in Fallbrook, Calif. I'd buy you
> lunch for saving me the call to an electrician :-)
>
> Cheers!
> Joe

This is Turtle.

Your Elkcome.

The most you can put on a 40 amp breaker is 32 amps. The most you can put on a
50 amp breaker is 40 amps without running it hot . So your good on the 50 amp
breaker and a 37.5 amp load.

TURTLE




Posted by Chris Lewis on August 3, 2005, 8:58 pm


> This is odd, could you explain that to me? I am an automotive systems
> engineer and I design the wiring for automobiles. The length of wire
> has nothing to do with the fuse rating. The device on the end of the
> wire also has nothing to do with the fuse rating.

> Well ok, some devices can terminate a few different sizes of wire, and
> this is a physical thing, nothing to do with current amount but with
> diameter, etc.

> So why does wire length matter for breaker size in a home?

It doesn't matter directly, but there are some indirect effects.

First of all, and this applies to your engineering, the fuse/breaker
should be no larger than the current carrying capacity of the wire.

Second of all, in AC power wiring, devices are tested and approved
for connection to a maximum circuit ampacity. So, you can't put a
15A 120V device on a 60A circuit.

And thirdly, which is where wire length comes into play: certain
devices (especially A/Cs and other large motor-powered devices) have
very large startup surges. The wiring has to be large enough so
that coupled with wire length, there isn't excessive voltage drop to
the device. The more the voltage drops, the more the startup surge
is prolonged. Coupled with the fact that breakers and fuses have
time-delay factors built in, it's entirely possible for a large
startup motor load (like a central A/C) to trip a breaker on 100' of
wire when it wouldn't trip the breaker on 10' of the _same_ wire.

Often the wire size has to be a size or two larger than the ampacity
would dictate to reduce voltage drop. With A/Cs and certain other
loads, not only the wire sometimes has to be larger than you'd expect
(with long runs), the breaker has to be somewhat larger than the
steady-state draw of the A/C would suggest.

Central A/Cs often have somewhat oversize wires and breakers, with
a fuse local to the device closer to the A/C's continuous draw.

--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.


Posted by Bud on August 4, 2005, 11:29 am


Chris Lewis wrote:

>
>>This is odd, could you explain that to me? I am an automotive systems
>>engineer and I design the wiring for automobiles. The length of wire
>>has nothing to do with the fuse rating. The device on the end of the
>>wire also has nothing to do with the fuse rating.
>
>
>
>>Well ok, some devices can terminate a few different sizes of wire, and
>>this is a physical thing, nothing to do with current amount but with
>>diameter, etc.
>
>
>
>>So why does wire length matter for breaker size in a home?
>
>
> It doesn't matter directly, but there are some indirect effects.
>
> First of all, and this applies to your engineering, the fuse/breaker
> should be no larger than the current carrying capacity of the wire.
>
Rules change a little for motor circuits. In general the wire has to
have a rating 125% of the motor rating. Because of the high starting
current of motors, time delay fuses/circuit breakers can have a rating
of 175% of the motor rating; this is for short circuit protection. For
overload protection motor starters with a narrow range overload trip
unit or thermal trip units in the motor are used. For low duty-cycle
welders the fuse can be much larger than the wire rating. (Don't use
higher ratings if you don't know what code requirements are and what you
are doing.)

> Second of all, in AC power wiring, devices are tested and approved
> for connection to a maximum circuit ampacity. So, you can't put a
> 15A 120V device on a 60A circuit.
>
Home A/C units will be marked with a maximum overcurrent device size. If
it says maximum fuse size, the device must be a fuse.

> And thirdly, which is where wire length comes into play: certain
> devices (especially A/Cs and other large motor-powered devices) have
> very large startup surges. The wiring has to be large enough so
> that coupled with wire length, there isn't excessive voltage drop to
> the device. The more the voltage drops, the more the startup surge
> is prolonged. Coupled with the fact that breakers and fuses have
> time-delay factors built in, it's entirely possible for a large
> startup motor load (like a central A/C) to trip a breaker on 100' of
> wire when it wouldn't trip the breaker on 10' of the _same_ wire.
>
> Often the wire size has to be a size or two larger than the ampacity
> would dictate to reduce voltage drop. With A/Cs and certain other
> loads, not only the wire sometimes has to be larger than you'd expect
> (with long runs), the breaker has to be somewhat larger than the
> steady-state draw of the A/C would suggest.
>
> Central A/Cs often have somewhat oversize wires and breakers, with
> a fuse local to the device closer to the A/C's continuous draw.
>


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