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Radical idea for Supporting Porch Roof ChrisCoaster 08-02-2008
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Posted by ChrisCoaster on August 2, 2008, 1:13 pm


Actually, 34 years ago this technique was used to support the Upper
Deck at Yankee Stadium after the columns & decorative frieze were
removed:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/152457252/sizes/l/
Cable suspension!

That's right.

It just hit me that a home with a front porch, like:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/13083606@N02/2690725215/

or: http://www.flickr.com/photos/62765927@N00/110279946/ (notice side
profile of porch next door - this would be most feasible!)

Finally: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rnmary/2680235685/ (in this
application, ideal porch roof profile is present but carries across
garage. Cabling would obviously not be necessary at garage end.)

Could have unrestricted views from inside or on the porch with a roof
supported partially via cable tiebacks reamed through the vertical
studs inside the exterior house wall. Any railing or waist-high wall
would remain on the porch for the restraint of children or pets, but
there would be nothing contacting both rail or roof. These cables
would run just under the roof slope of the porch roof, and be tied in
a similar fashion at the front end of the overhang. They would share
the load with existing rafters gusseted into those vertical exterior
wall members.

My criteria include:
-NO residential space above the porch roof(temporary occupancy allowed
as evacuation route in fire).
-MUST be able to support the weight of a standard occupied porch swing
and/or at least 12" of snow.
-Vertical studs to which cables are tied CANNOT have any rot/cracking/
other degradation, or home would be disqualified from having a
pillarless porch roof.
-Porch depths up to EIGHT feet are feasible.

No doubt it would take most people some time getting used to seeing a
typical bungalow or two-story farmhouse with the porch roof just
"hanging" there, but I think it would really open up the view a lot.

If they could do this 35 years ago at Yankee Stadium, resulting in
cantilevers over 50' deep, then I'm sure the technique could be scaled
town to residential applications.

Viable, anyone?

-ChrisCoaster

AppliancePartsPros.com, Inc.
Posted by Wayne Boatwright on August 2, 2008, 1:37 pm


On Sat 02 Aug 2008 10:13:24a, ChrisCoaster told us...

> Actually, 34 years ago this technique was used to support the Upper
> Deck at Yankee Stadium after the columns & decorative frieze were
> removed:
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/152457252/sizes/l/
> Cable suspension!
>
> That's right.
>
> It just hit me that a home with a front porch, like:
>
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13083606@N02/2690725215/
>
> or: http://www.flickr.com/photos/62765927@N00/110279946/ (notice side
> profile of porch next door - this would be most feasible!)
>
> Finally: http://www.flickr.com/photos/rnmary/2680235685/ (in this
> application, ideal porch roof profile is present but carries across
> garage. Cabling would obviously not be necessary at garage end.)
>
> Could have unrestricted views from inside or on the porch with a roof
> supported partially via cable tiebacks reamed through the vertical
> studs inside the exterior house wall. Any railing or waist-high wall
> would remain on the porch for the restraint of children or pets, but
> there would be nothing contacting both rail or roof. These cables
> would run just under the roof slope of the porch roof, and be tied in
> a similar fashion at the front end of the overhang. They would share
> the load with existing rafters gusseted into those vertical exterior
> wall members.
>
> My criteria include:
> -NO residential space above the porch roof(temporary occupancy allowed
> as evacuation route in fire).
> -MUST be able to support the weight of a standard occupied porch swing
> and/or at least 12" of snow.
> -Vertical studs to which cables are tied CANNOT have any rot/cracking/
> other degradation, or home would be disqualified from having a
> pillarless porch roof.
> -Porch depths up to EIGHT feet are feasible.
>
> No doubt it would take most people some time getting used to seeing a
> typical bungalow or two-story farmhouse with the porch roof just
> "hanging" there, but I think it would really open up the view a lot.
>
> If they could do this 35 years ago at Yankee Stadium, resulting in
> cantilevers over 50' deep, then I'm sure the technique could be scaled
> town to residential applications.
>
> Viable, anyone?
>
> -ChrisCoaster
>

Viable, but hideous, unless it's applied to extremely modern architecture.
Stadium architecture, regardless of age, does not a home make.

--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 08(VIII)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Don't start an argument with somebody
who has a microphone when you don't;
they'll make you look like chopped
liver. --Harlan Ellison, on hecklers
-------------------------------------------


Posted by RicodJour on August 2, 2008, 3:23 pm


> On Sat 02 Aug 2008 10:13:24a, ChrisCoaster told us...
>
>
>
> > Actually, 34 years ago this technique was used to support the Upper
> > Deck at Yankee Stadium after the columns & decorative frieze were
> > removed:
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/152457252/sizes/l/
> > Cable suspension!
>
> > That's right.
>
> > It just hit me that a home with a front porch, like:
>
> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/13083606@N02/2690725215/
>
> > or: =A0http://www.flickr.com/photos/62765927@N00/110279946/(notice side
> > profile of porch next door - this would be most feasible!)
>
> > Finally:http://www.flickr.com/photos/rnmary/2680235685/(in this
> > application, ideal porch roof profile is present but carries across
> > garage. =A0Cabling would obviously not be necessary at garage end.)
>
> > Could have unrestricted views from inside or on the porch with a roof
> > supported partially via cable tiebacks reamed through the vertical
> > studs inside the exterior house wall. =A0Any railing or waist-high wall
> > would remain on the porch for the restraint of children or pets, but
> > there would be nothing contacting both rail or roof. =A0These cables
> > would run just under the roof slope of the porch roof, and be tied in
> > a similar fashion at the front end of the overhang. =A0They would share
> > the load with existing rafters gusseted into those vertical exterior
> > wall members.
>
> > My criteria include:
> > -NO residential space above the porch roof(temporary occupancy allowed
> > as evacuation route in fire).
> > -MUST be able to support the weight of a standard occupied porch swing
> > and/or at least 12" of snow.
> > -Vertical studs to which cables are tied CANNOT have any rot/cracking/
> > other degradation, or home would be disqualified from having a
> > pillarless porch roof.
> > -Porch depths up to EIGHT feet are feasible.
>
> > No doubt it would take most people some time getting used to seeing a
> > typical bungalow or two-story farmhouse with the porch roof just
> > "hanging" there, but I think it would really open up the view a lot.
>
> > If they could do this 35 years ago at Yankee Stadium, resulting in
> > cantilevers over 50' deep, then I'm sure the technique could be scaled
> > town to residential applications.
>
> > Viable, anyone?
>
> Viable, but hideous, unless it's applied to extremely modern architecture=
. =A0
> Stadium architecture, regardless of age, does not a home make.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but wind uplift forces are in
the code books.

What keeps a cable supported porch roof from acting like a huge sail
in high winds? How does it stay in place during an earthquake?

It'd be cheaper and easier to cantilever the 2nd floor joists to cover
the porch.

R

Posted by Wayne Boatwright on August 2, 2008, 6:50 pm


On Sat 02 Aug 2008 12:23:59p, RicodJour told us...

>> On Sat 02 Aug 2008 10:13:24a, ChrisCoaster told us...
>>
>>
>>
>> > Actually, 34 years ago this technique was used to support the Upper
>> > Deck at Yankee Stadium after the columns & decorative frieze were
>> > removed:
>>
>> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/152457252/sizes/l/
>> > Cable suspension!
>>
>> > That's right.
>>
>> > It just hit me that a home with a front porch, like:
>>
>> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/13083606@N02/2690725215/
>>
>> > or:  http://www.flickr.com/photos/62765927@N00/110279946/(notice side
>> > profile of porch next door - this would be most feasible!)
>>
>> > Finally:http://www.flickr.com/photos/rnmary/2680235685/(in this
>> > application, ideal porch roof profile is present but carries across
>> > garage.  Cabling would obviously not be necessary at garage end.)
>>
>> > Could have unrestricted views from inside or on the porch with a roof
>> > supported partially via cable tiebacks reamed through the vertical
>> > studs inside the exterior house wall.  Any railing or waist-high wall
>> > would remain on the porch for the restraint of children or pets, but
>> > there would be nothing contacting both rail or roof.  These cables
>> > would run just under the roof slope of the porch roof, and be tied in
>> > a similar fashion at the front end of the overhang.  They would share
>> > the load with existing rafters gusseted into those vertical exterior
>> > wall members.
>>
>> > My criteria include:
>> > -NO residential space above the porch roof(temporary occupancy allowed
>> > as evacuation route in fire).
>> > -MUST be able to support the weight of a standard occupied porch swing
>> > and/or at least 12" of snow.
>> > -Vertical studs to which cables are tied CANNOT have any rot/cracking/
>> > other degradation, or home would be disqualified from having a
>> > pillarless porch roof.
>> > -Porch depths up to EIGHT feet are feasible.
>>
>> > No doubt it would take most people some time getting used to seeing a
>> > typical bungalow or two-story farmhouse with the porch roof just
>> > "hanging" there, but I think it would really open up the view a lot.
>>
>> > If they could do this 35 years ago at Yankee Stadium, resulting in
>> > cantilevers over 50' deep, then I'm sure the technique could be scaled
>> > town to residential applications.
>>
>> > Viable, anyone?
>>
>> Viable, but hideous, unless it's applied to extremely modern
architecture
>> .   Stadium architecture, regardless of age, does not a home make.
>
> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but wind uplift forces are in
> the code books.
>
> What keeps a cable supported porch roof from acting like a huge sail
> in high winds? How does it stay in place during an earthquake?

That might be something worth watching! :-)

> It'd be cheaper and easier to cantilever the 2nd floor joists to cover
> the porch.
>
> R
>



--
Wayne Boatwright
-------------------------------------------
Saturday, 08(VIII)/02(II)/08(MMVIII)
-------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------
Don't start an argument with somebody
who has a microphone when you don't;
they'll make you look like chopped
liver. --Harlan Ellison, on hecklers
-------------------------------------------


Posted by on August 2, 2008, 7:46 pm



>What keeps a cable supported porch roof from acting like a huge sail...

Leonard Bachman's new Integrated Buildings book describes a house
in Almere, near Amsterdam...

This radical design was a winning entry in a competition for demountable
housing. Most designs for High-Tech residential projects work to identify
transferable tecnnology from commercial building systems. This house takes
the reverse approach. It is actually a residential laboratory for working
out a construction scheme the architects were developing for a commercial
project...

Working with store-bought pieces, the architects erected the house
themselves in only three days. One of them, Jan Benthem, lived in it
with his family during the five-year design award period.

Foundation: Four prefab concrete industrial floorslabs act as pads to
support a steel space frame of 2m bays 2m above the ground with adjustable
jacks. The space frame uses thin tube members flattened at the ends and
is bolted together on 5 mm octagonal welded steel connectors.

Vertical members: Roof is supported on 3 sides by frameless glass walls
and supporting glass fins. The glass is made structural by bearing
carefully on the large thick panels and then bracing them with fins
to prevent lateral deflection.

Horizontal spans: Roof span rests on inverted truss of steel angles
and tension cables. Roof grid is vertically tied back to floor by 2
interior cables to resist uplift.

Roof: Loose laid EPDM membrane on 50 mm extruded polystyrene insulation
over profiled steel metal deck...

The roof is supported by 3 tensioned stainless steel cables spanning from
the deck side wall to the enclosed bays and 2 more cables spanning the other
direction. This makes a 2 meter grid of cables under the metal roof deck
matching the joints of glass and supporting fins. It both holds the roof
up and holds it down. Pairs of steel angle run under the exposed metal
deck on the same grid. Adjustable struts lift the middle of the roof from
the 6 intersection points of the cables, forcing down against the cables
and up against the steel angles.

The cable, struts and angles form a shallow and whispery 2-way tension
truss, preventing deflection in the roof and perhaps introducing positive
camber to insure rainwater drainage. Additionally, the center two strut
points are tied back to the floor in the middle of the room by vertical
steel cables to counter wind uplift forces. These 2 tieback cables pull
directly down from the adjustable struts and are secured to the floor at
points where it is directly supported by the space frame undercarriage.

Brief:

The competition emphasized a concern about the impact of permanent
architecture. It asked if society would not be better served by having
a portion of its buildings designed as deployable temporary structures to be
erected, disassembled, warehoused as components, then erected again. This
was postulated as a more intelligent response to changing needs and land use
patterns than heavy investment in monumental buildings which constantly
become obsolete and burdensome. Accordingly, the guidelines stipulated
that entries must be removable in five years and leave no scars on the site.
To assure the ease of construction and commissioning, the rules required
that the houses could readily be assembled by the user...

Nick


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