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Re: Are we the only ones getting screwed ?????

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Re: Are we the only ones getting screwed ????? hallerb@aol.com 03-28-2008
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Posted by on March 29, 2008, 6:12 pm

> Virtually every survey shows that the cost of oil is not a deterrent to its
> use. Oil is not price elastic. Like food, fuel is a necessity and increasing
> the price - through taxes or supply/demand - only nibbles at the margins.

Sure it's elastic! It's just not IMMEDIATELY elastic. You have to be
able to buy the more efficient car, or the alternative transportation
has to be made available. At $1.00/gallon, carpooling isn't
"reasonable". At $5.00, it sure as heck becomes reasonable. Cheap
gas = SUV. Expensive gas = higher mpg car.
Europeans live a comfortable lifestyle, and for many years their gas
has been at a price that would cause a revolt here in the guzzler
nation.


> Doubling the cost of fuel means adding 10% to the cost of almost everything
> that travels by truck. That translates to about a 30% increase at the retail
> level.
Yep, that's just the point. Maybe we'd grow produce locally instead
of trucking it all over. Maybe we wouldn't be bottling water in
Europe and Hawaii, just so some bunchasnobs can pretend they know the
difference.

> Alternative energies may gain influence, but there are two things to
> consider when pinning hopes on such plans:
>
> 1. Solar energy is dependent entirely on the earth's distance from the sun*.
> It would take a solar collector farm the size of the Los Angeles basin to
> provide electricity for just California.
Solar may vary with the distance. But it's relatively trivial.
Put solar on all the roofs in LA, and you make a big difference
without taking any land up.

> 2. Meddling in the natural order causes unintended consequences. Conversion
> of traditional crops to grow corn (for example) has contributed to a
> doubling of rice prices in only one year (now up to $1000/ton from $360 in
> January 2007). Just this past week, Egypt, Pakistan, and Viet Nam stopped
> the export of locally grown rice to forstall famine and inflation.

Here, you are absolutely correct. I am not a fan of ethanol from
crops, primarily because there isn't sufficient gain in energy after
you consider the farming, trucking, processing, fertilizing, water
pumping, and land consumption. The price of tortillas for Mexicans
has jumped substantially since we started putting corn in our gas
tanks. The whole thing is a moneymaker for Archer Daniels Midland,
which gets huge subsidies from the feds, even though they make huge
amounts of money from the crops. And don't get me started on crop
subsidies for the farmers themselves. It's a racket.


> -------
> *745 watts/sq meter at the equator, at noon, with no clouds. Adjusted for
> latitude, night, and cloud cover, a solar collector farm in, say, Arizona
> might average 100-200 watts/sq m.

Without a collector, people in AZ use fossil or nuclear fuels to cool
their homes.

Posted by dadiOH on March 29, 2008, 7:30 pm
websurf1@cox.net wrote:

>> Doubling the cost of fuel means adding 10% to the cost of almost
>> everything that travels by truck. That translates to about a 30%
>> increase at the retail level.
> Yep, that's just the point. Maybe we'd grow produce locally instead
> of trucking it all over.

Could we also go back to using freight trains? You know...by train from
major place to major place, by truck from major to local.

I seem to remember that worked well.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico




Posted by Edwin Pawlowski on March 29, 2008, 7:43 pm

>
> Could we also go back to using freight trains? You know...by train from
> major place to major place, by truck from major to local.
>
> I seem to remember that worked well.

Sure, but it took a little longer. In this day of instant gratification
where things MUST go FedEx red we don't have the patience to wait a few more
days. I have seen though, where 53' containers can go by rail and be more
economical than straight truck routing. At $4+ for diesel, trains would
make a lot of sense. Passenger trains too!



Posted by Frank on March 29, 2008, 10:07 pm

>
>>
>> Could we also go back to using freight trains? You know...by train from
>> major place to major place, by truck from major to local.
>>
>> I seem to remember that worked well.
>
> Sure, but it took a little longer. In this day of instant gratification
> where things MUST go FedEx red we don't have the patience to wait a few
> more days. I have seen though, where 53' containers can go by rail and be
> more economical than straight truck routing. At $4+ for diesel, trains
> would make a lot of sense. Passenger trains too!
>

Not on subject, looks like investing in rail transportation maybe a good
long term strategy. Trains are coming back.



Posted by gas on March 30, 2008, 8:56 am

> Not on subject, looks like investing in rail transportation maybe a good
> long term strategy. Trains are coming back.

I agree here. In the long term I think it'll also be good for truckers.

I used to hitchhike a lot. B/c of regulations I only rarely got picked up
by truckers, and when I did it was usually because they were just dying
for someone to talk to and give them some company (sometimes to keep them
awake).

On the average, most of them didn't seem to like doing long distance
hauls. This was always the case for the married, divorced, and with
children truckers. They only rarely got to spend time with their families.

On the other hand, shifting distribution to send freight by train to major
population centers (or freight centers), and the serving local areas by
truck from these freight centers would drastically improve energy
consumption, mean more time at home for the truckers, reduce traffic on
the highways, reduce pollution...

Okay, it might take a bit longer. Then the overnight delivery just gets
significantly more expensive. I think this is a good trade-off. Also,
with automazation technology, and improved routing and tracking, I think
we can expect an improvement on the shipping times we used to see.

This could also be combined with high speed shipping of people along major
flight-commute routes.

If we keep tacking on %1 - %5 percent reductions in fuel usage, eventually
we could be an energy neutral company (produce what we consume). Wouldn't
that be great!

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