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Re: Are we the only ones getting screwed ?????

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Re: Are we the only ones getting screwed ????? Steve 03-29-2008
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Posted by Steve on March 29, 2008, 9:44 am
trader4@optonline.net wrote on 29 Mar 2008 in group alt.home.repair:

> What none of this specifically addresses is why certain products have
> gone up a lot more than others which are also derived from crude
> oil. For example, diesel has just hit $4.30 here in NJ, which puts
> it around $1.25 higher than regular gasoline. That's the highest
> spread I've ever seen. Diesel is essentially fuel oil, which is
> what Brian is complaining about. My own suspicions would be:
>
> 1 - Refining capacity
>
> 2 - Environmental reqts that require this fuel to be cleaner, ie
> ultra low sulfur, but as I recall that went into effect some time
> ago, and while the spread between diesel and gasoline, crude etc
> widened then, it wasn't anywhere near as wide as the spread is now.
>
> But no one has actually adressed this. ABC news ran a story last
> night about the high cost of diesel, it's effect on truckers,
> shipping costs, etc, but no explanation of why it's gone up
> significantly more than other petroleum products.

Ed Wallace, a commentator in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, pointed out
in a recent column that supply is up, and demand is down, so prices
should be down. He thinks the high prices are driven by speculation and
a weak Dollar. In 2000 there were 9 gigabucks in the oil futures market.
In 2008 the amount is 250 gigabucks.

Here's a link to the column:
http://www.star-telegram.com/ed_wallace/story/541726.html

--
Steve B.
New Life Home Improvement

Posted by hallerb@aol.com on March 29, 2008, 10:02 am
feds should loosen smog regulations on gasoline and additives, to help
bring price down a little

temporarily suspend the federal gasoline tax

feds should allow cheap dirty econo car sales in the US for a limited
number of years. low power they wouldnt be allowed on some roads,
lower safety. but say 50 MPG minimum. such cars are sold in other
countries thru out the world

now before you gewt your panties in a wad, people use motorcycles for
transportation too, and by all means any car should be safer than a
harley...

all of these would help our short term problem. the cost of in action
is a major recession..........

and most importandly change funding of all national elections
completely. limit 100 bucks per person, no corporate giving to
candidates.

so our representives arent bought and sold anymore

Posted by on March 29, 2008, 11:29 am
> feds should loosen smog regulations on gasoline and additives, to help
> bring price down a little

Loosening any gasoline formulation regulations is only going to bring
the price down a little. Given that gas prices have about tripled,
it doesn't seem to me that any small change in the price is going to
be worth dirty air.


>
> temporarily suspend the federal gasoline tax

Yeah, they could do that. I think it's about 16 cents. But without
a corresponding decrease in spending, it would add to the deficit,



>
> feds should allow cheap dirty econo car sales in the US for a limited
> number of years. low power they wouldnt be allowed on some roads,
> lower safety. but say 50 MPG minimum. such cars are sold in other
> countries thru out the world


Where are these cheap dirty cars being driven? Certainly not in
Europe, Japan, Canada, etc. Maybe in China, where they don't give a
damn about the environment. I don't understand why they need to be
dirty. We have reasonable cost cars here getting very good mileage
that also meet all US regulations. The problem is, people haven't
been buying them. They've been buying bigger cars and more
importantly SUV's, so clearly price isn't the problem.


>
> now before you gewt your panties in a wad, people use motorcycles for
> transportation too, and by all means any car should be safer than a
> harley...
>
> all of these would help our short term problem. the cost of in action
> is a major recession..........

How is allowing cheap dirty cars into the US a short term solution to
anything?


>
> and most importandly change funding of all national elections
> completely. limit 100 bucks per person, no corporate giving to
> candidates.
>
> so our representives arent bought and sold anymore


IMO, unconstitutional.

Posted by Kurt Ullman on March 29, 2008, 11:43 am
In article
trader4@optonline.net wrote:

> > feds should loosen smog regulations on gasoline and additives, to help
> > bring price down a little
>
> Loosening any gasoline formulation regulations is only going to bring
> the price down a little. Given that gas prices have about tripled,
> it doesn't seem to me that any small change in the price is going to
> be worth dirty air.

You have something like seven different formulations that need to be
changed during the seasons. And most refineries can't do many of the
different types without major changes. Even then, refineries have to be
shut down to make the changeover. If demand is increased in one area, it
is not likely that the refineries in another would be able to easily
change over.
Having just one or two (probably even if the one is for California)
could help a bit with using refinery capacity we have now more
efficiently.

> > Where are these cheap dirty cars being driven? Certainly not in
> Europe, Japan, Canada, etc. Maybe in China, where they don't give a
> damn about the environment. I don't understand why they need to be
> dirty. We have reasonable cost cars here getting very good mileage
> that also meet all US regulations. The problem is, people haven't
> been buying them. They've been buying bigger cars and more
> importantly SUV's, so clearly price isn't the problem.

Cheap oil was the reason (among others) and the fleet doesn't change
all that quickly. You can see the smaller, cleaner, and more fuel
efficient cars making head way in market now. It will accelerate once
people get convinced that this isn't just another 70s style bounce that
will go away soon.

Posted by hallerb@aol.com on March 29, 2008, 11:55 am

> > feds should loosen smog regulations on gasoline and additives, to help
> > bring price down a little
>
> Loosening any gasoline formulation regulations is only going to bring
> the price down a little. =EF=BF=BD Given that gas prices have about triple=
d,
> it doesn't seem to me that any small change in the price is going to
> be worth dirty air.

a little here, a little there. it all adds up in the end. diesel has
soared in cost because of the low sulphur regulations

> > temporarily suspend the federal gasoline tax
>
> Yeah, they could do that. =EF=BF=BDI think it's about 16 cents. =EF=BF=BD =
But without
> a corresponding decrease in spending, it would add to the deficit,

Unemployment benefits welfare and all the rest to help a recession
costs too. better to start the help at the top.

> > feds should allow cheap dirty econo car sales in the US for a limited
> > number of years. low power they wouldnt be allowed on some roads,
> > lower safety. but say 50 MPG minimum. such cars are sold in other
> > countries thru out the world
>
> Where are these cheap dirty cars being driven? =EF=BF=BD Certainly not in
> Europe, Japan, Canada, etc. =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDMaybe in China, where they =
don't give a
> damn about the environment. =EF=BF=BD I don't understand why they need to =
be
> dirty. =EF=BF=BD We have reasonable cost cars here getting very good milea=
ge
> that also meet all US regulations. =EF=BF=BD The problem is, people haven'=
t
> been buying them. =EF=BF=BDThey've been buying bigger cars and more
> importantly SUV's, so clearly price isn't the problem.

add a fuel hog tax to any new vehicle getting under 20 MPG. sure car
companies will miss the SUV sales but its important.


> > now before you get your panties in a wad, people use motorcycles for
> > transportation too, and by all means any car should be safer than a
> > harley...
>
> > all of these would help our short term problem. the cost of in action
> > is a major recession..........
>
> How is allowing cheap dirty cars into the US a short term solution to
> anything?
>

they get excellent gas mileage around 50MPG the tata costs 2500 bucks,
so lots of americans could afford a commuter or around home car.


> > and most importandly change funding of all national elections
> > completely. limit 100 bucks per person, no corporate giving to
> > candidates.
>
> > so our representives arent bought and sold anymore
>
> IMO, unconstitutional.

theres lots of rules on fundraising, this would just be more
restrictive........ and great for our country. and necessary, just
look at congress in the last 10 years, they are pathetic

we also need to look at what america can afford to do in the world?
wht should we still have military in europe? japan etc?

pre set hardened bases, with skelton crews, our troops back hme
spending their money here, providing border security etc......

currently our troops are just fiancial aid to other countries, like
germany.

definetely keep active bases in s korea etc........

in this day and age we can create a system to get our troops to any
part of the world in a day or two


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