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Re: Lightning & Bathtubs gfretwell 05-31-2008
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Posted by on May 31, 2008, 11:33 pm
On Fri, 30 May 2008 17:20:56 -0500, letterman@invalid.com wrote:

>We are always told to never take a bath when it's lightning because of
>the possibility of electrocution if the lightning travels through the
>metal plumbing. This makes sense. But what if the plumbing connected
>ot the tub is all plastic? These days we have PEX, CPVC, and other
>plastic pipes supplying the water to the tub, and PVC drain pipes.
>Since the tub is not connected to any metal plumbing, is there any
>danger?
>
>I'm not planning to take a bath or shower during a storm, but I just
>heard this warning on tv again, and it got me wondering if there's any
>danger with all plastic pipes. It kind of seems like this may be an
>outdated warning, if one knows for sure there are no metal pipes
>connected.


Mythbusters played with these things in the power company lab. and
figured out all sorts of bad things could happen in a lightnng storm
(shower, phone etc)
The main lesson was they had to lift the ground electrode cable to get
any of these bad things to happen. A properly bonded and grounded
house should be safe.
If everything is bonded you are a bird on a wire or a helicopter
lineman.
The same basic principle is true in your surge protection but I am not
getting in that flame war.


Posted by dnoyeB on June 3, 2008, 7:59 am
On Sat, 31 May 2008 23:33:28 -0400, gfretwell wrote:

> On Fri, 30 May 2008 17:20:56 -0500, letterman@invalid.com wrote:
>
>>We are always told to never take a bath when it's lightning because of
>>the possibility of electrocution if the lightning travels through the
>>metal plumbing. This makes sense. But what if the plumbing connected
>>ot the tub is all plastic? These days we have PEX, CPVC, and other
>>plastic pipes supplying the water to the tub, and PVC drain pipes. Since
>>the tub is not connected to any metal plumbing, is there any danger?
>>
>>I'm not planning to take a bath or shower during a storm, but I just
>>heard this warning on tv again, and it got me wondering if there's any
>>danger with all plastic pipes. It kind of seems like this may be an
>>outdated warning, if one knows for sure there are no metal pipes
>>connected.
>
>
> Mythbusters played with these things in the power company lab. and
> figured out all sorts of bad things could happen in a lightnng storm
> (shower, phone etc)
> The main lesson was they had to lift the ground electrode cable to get
> any of these bad things to happen. A properly bonded and grounded house
> should be safe.
> If everything is bonded you are a bird on a wire or a helicopter
> lineman.
> The same basic principle is true in your surge protection but I am not
> getting in that flame war.

That is totally untrue. Lightning is static electricity, its going to
behave differently than your standard A/C 3-phase loop. This is like
saying because you have a lightning rod, you won't get struck by
lightning. The only thing a lightning rod means is you are less likely to
get struck, but if you do, it will be right in the rod.

So a "properly bonded and grounded" house will be less likely to get
struck, but if it is, it will be right in the "bond and ground."

There is no way around this. The only thing you have going for you is
Gauss' law. And that may not save your ass.

Posted by bud-- on June 3, 2008, 12:05 pm
dnoyeB wrote:
> On Sat, 31 May 2008 23:33:28 -0400, gfretwell wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 30 May 2008 17:20:56 -0500, letterman@invalid.com wrote:
>>
>>> We are always told to never take a bath when it's lightning because of
>>> the possibility of electrocution if the lightning travels through the
>>> metal plumbing. This makes sense. But what if the plumbing connected
>>> ot the tub is all plastic? These days we have PEX, CPVC, and other
>>> plastic pipes supplying the water to the tub, and PVC drain pipes. Since
>>> the tub is not connected to any metal plumbing, is there any danger?
>>>
>>> I'm not planning to take a bath or shower during a storm, but I just
>>> heard this warning on tv again, and it got me wondering if there's any
>>> danger with all plastic pipes. It kind of seems like this may be an
>>> outdated warning, if one knows for sure there are no metal pipes
>>> connected.
>>
>> Mythbusters played with these things in the power company lab. and
>> figured out all sorts of bad things could happen in a lightnng storm
>> (shower, phone etc)
>> The main lesson was they had to lift the ground electrode cable to get
>> any of these bad things to happen. A properly bonded and grounded house
>> should be safe.
>> If everything is bonded you are a bird on a wire or a helicopter
>> lineman.
>> The same basic principle is true in your surge protection but I am not
>> getting in that flame war.
>
> That is totally untrue. Lightning is static electricity, its going to
> behave differently than your standard A/C 3-phase loop. This is like
> saying because you have a lightning rod, you won't get struck by
> lightning. The only thing a lightning rod means is you are less likely to
> get struck, but if you do, it will be right in the rod.
>
> So a "properly bonded and grounded" house will be less likely to get
> struck, but if it is, it will be right in the "bond and ground."

I read gfretwell as saying that with proper bonding there won't be
damaging voltage between parts of the electrical system. Like a "bird on
a wire", or perhaps 2 birds on the same wire that touch each other. With
proper grounding (earthing), the voltage of the system to 'earth' is
minimized. [But for protection from a direct strike to a house you need
lightning rods.]

Myhtbusters disconnected grounding (earthing) so there was dangerous
voltage between the system and 'earth'. [The mythbusters earthing was
probably much more effective than a house.]


Far as I have read, lightning rods do not reduce the probability of a
building being struck by lightning (although some manufacturers make
that claim).

--
bud--

Posted by ransley on June 3, 2008, 3:38 pm
> dnoyeB wrote:
> > On Sat, 31 May 2008 23:33:28 -0400, gfretwell wrote:
>
> >> On Fri, 30 May 2008 17:20:56 -0500, letter...@invalid.com wrote:
>
> >>> We are always told to never take a bath when it's lightning because of=

> >>> the possibility of electrocution if the lightning travels through the
> >>> metal plumbing. =A0This makes sense. =A0But what if the plumbing conne=
cted
> >>> ot the tub is all plastic? =A0These days we have PEX, CPVC, and other
> >>> plastic pipes supplying the water to the tub, and PVC drain pipes. Sin=
ce
> >>> the tub is not connected to any metal plumbing, is there any danger?
>
> >>> I'm not planning to take a bath or shower during a storm, but I just
> >>> heard this warning on tv again, and it got me wondering if there's any=

> >>> danger with all plastic pipes. =A0It kind of seems like this may be an=

> >>> outdated warning, if one knows for sure there are no metal pipes
> >>> connected.
>
> >> Mythbusters played with these things in the power company lab. and
> >> figured out all sorts of bad things could happen in a lightnng storm
> >> (shower, phone etc)
> >> The main lesson was they had to lift the ground electrode cable to get
> >> any of these bad things to happen. A properly bonded and grounded house=

> >> should be safe.
> >> If everything is bonded you are a bird on a wire or a helicopter
> >> lineman.
> >> The same basic principle is true in your surge protection but I am not
> >> getting in that flame war.
>
> > That is totally untrue. =A0Lightning is static electricity, its going to=

> > behave differently than your standard A/C 3-phase loop. =A0This is like
> > saying because you have a lightning rod, you won't get struck by
> > lightning. =A0The only thing a lightning rod means is you are less likel=
y to
> > get struck, but if you do, it will be right in the rod. =A0
>
> > So a "properly bonded and grounded" house will be less likely to get
> > struck, but if it is, it will be right in the "bond and ground."
>
> I read gfretwell as saying that with proper bonding there won't be
> damaging voltage between parts of the electrical system. Like a "bird on
> a wire", or perhaps 2 birds on the same wire that touch each other. With
> proper grounding (earthing), the voltage of the system to 'earth' is
> minimized. [But for protection from a direct strike to a house you need
> lightning rods.]
>
> Myhtbusters disconnected grounding (earthing) so there was dangerous
> voltage between the system and 'earth'. [The mythbusters earthing was
> probably much more effective than a house.]
>
> Far as I have read, lightning rods do not reduce the probability of a
> building being struck by lightning (although some manufacturers make
> that claim).
>
> --
> bud--- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I know someone who was killed by talking on the telephone- landline
from Lightning . Ive been struck twice at my home, Lightning is not
something to enjoy. Do what you can, but dont risk it. Lighning moves
as 500000 v plasma by air killing anything

Posted by dnoyeB on June 3, 2008, 10:58 pm
On Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:05:23 -0500, bud-- wrote:
>>
>> That is totally untrue. Lightning is static electricity, its going to
>> behave differently than your standard A/C 3-phase loop. This is like
>> saying because you have a lightning rod, you won't get struck by
>> lightning. The only thing a lightning rod means is you are less likely
>> to get struck, but if you do, it will be right in the rod.
>>
>> So a "properly bonded and grounded" house will be less likely to get
>> struck, but if it is, it will be right in the "bond and ground."
>
> I read gfretwell as saying that with proper bonding there won't be
> damaging voltage between parts of the electrical system. Like a "bird on
> a wire", or perhaps 2 birds on the same wire that touch each other. With
> proper grounding (earthing), the voltage of the system to 'earth' is
> minimized. [But for protection from a direct strike to a house you need
> lightning rods.]
>

The bird on the wire analogy is bad. The bird is not "grounded" and
neither is the wire. So what in this analogy is grounded?

> Myhtbusters disconnected grounding (earthing) so there was dangerous
> voltage between the system and 'earth'. [The mythbusters earthing was
> probably much more effective than a house.]


A lightning strike results when static builds up. Grounding the house,
and creating sharp pointy objects into the air is a way for the static
charge to leak off and disipate. However, if the build up is really
quick, then the lightning strike will be right in the same place that was
leaking off the static. The lightning rod.

>
>
> Far as I have read, lightning rods do not reduce the probability of a
> building being struck by lightning (although some manufacturers make
> that claim).

A lightning rod is like a hole in a dam. They allow the charge to leak
through reducing the static electricity pressure. However, just as in a
dam, if the hole is not enough, then the burst will occur right at the
hole.



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