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Home Repair - - If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Otherwise look here.
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Posted by N8N on May 12, 2008, 7:26 pm
>
>
>
<snip>
> > > Secondly, has
> > > anyone had any luck with going through the power company to pay for some
> > > of this damage (the air filter is maybe 6 mos. old) or is homeowner's
> > > insurance the place to start? If the latter, I might be tempted to pay
> > > out of pocket to avoid a rate increase.
>
> > No experience here,but I would contact the power company first.
>
> Yeah, I will do that tomorrow once I have a chance to try all the
> major appliances, I still haven't tried the dishwasher, washing
> machine, or dryer, although the only failures so far seem to be the
> air filter and the one surge strip, which based on the date on the
> back was over 10 years old anyway.
>
OK, well, let me rephrase that. The only failures are the air filter,
one surge strip, and the dishwasher, which was installed literally the
week before we bought the house. Grr. So there will be no cleaning
of the furnace filters today.
I haven't tried the A/C yet either, which is also new.
The washer (ancient) and dryer (new) seem to be OK.
This could be an expensive experience.
nate
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Posted by w_tom on May 13, 2008, 12:24 am
> OK, well, let me rephrase that. The only failures are the air filter,
> one surge strip, and the dishwasher, which was installed literally the
> week before we bought the house. Grr. So there will be no cleaning
> of the furnace filters today.
> I haven't tried the A/C yet either, which is also new.
> The washer (ancient) and dryer (new) seem to be OK.
> This could be an expensive experience.
Useful is to determine which phase attached to the Siemens TVSS.
Then determine which other appliances were on the same phase. Was all
other damage also on that same phase?
Makes little difference whether an appliance is on or off for major
surges. That little gap in switches will only block smaller surges.
If the surge was not finding destructive paths through powered off
appliance switch, then, surge typically should have been too small to
harm any surge protector. Any protector diverts surges and remains
functional. Surge protectors only intended for one surge are grossly
undersized.
A TVSS on the breaker box should be 1000 joules minimum. Other
manufacturers make protectors that are maybe 2000 joules. A larger
protector may withstand surges 8 times larger. And again, must divert
surges without damage. Damaged TVSS implies that protector was too
small for your location.
Surges can also cause appliance overstress. Should the failed TVSS,
tripped circuit breakers, and other failed items be on the same phase,
then do some sniffing about on other appliances share that same
phase. Seek indication of damage that may result in failure months
later.
A properly sized plug-in protector does not fail on one surge. To
increase profit margins and to get the naive to recommend that
protector, some protectors are grossly undersized. Surge apparently
was rather small. Otherwise bathroom GFCIs, clock radios, dimmer
switches, smoke detectors, kitchen appliances, TV etc would also
appear on that damage list, and other appliances. Many of those
appliances were 'on' even when they appear to be off.
A surge struck an Ionic Breeze and protector simultaneously with
same potential. Surge was too small to harm the appliance but was
large enough to harm the adjacent protector. Age of the protector was
irrelevant. That implies a small surge - too small to overwhelm
protection already inside the Ionic Breeze.
'Whole house' protectors from GE, Intermatic, Siemens, Cutler-
Hammer, etc should be available in every electrical supply house as
well as through Lowes and Home Depot repair service. If your Siemens
TVSS is not sufficiently sized, then consider getting a second one to
exponentially increase breaker box protection. Other protectors not
part of a circuit breaker tend to be sized larger. You had appliances
damage implying the breaker box protection was too small - let too
much surge into the house.
Finally, also inspect your primary protection system since that is
your utilities responsibility and might be sufficient for them to pay
for damage:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html
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Posted by bud-- on May 14, 2008, 11:05 am
w_tom wrote:
>> OK, well, let me rephrase that. The only failures are the air filter,
>> one surge strip, and the dishwasher, which was installed literally the
>> week before we bought the house. Grr. So there will be no cleaning
>> of the furnace filters today.
>> I haven't tried the A/C yet either, which is also new.
>> The washer (ancient) and dryer (new) seem to be OK.
>> This could be an expensive experience.
>
> A TVSS on the breaker box should be 1000 joules minimum. Other
> manufacturers make protectors that are maybe 2000 joules. A larger
> protector may withstand surges 8 times larger. And again, must divert
> surges without damage. Damaged TVSS implies that protector was too
> small for your location.
The description from Nate indicates a utility failure that put a
relatively long duration (seconds, minutes?) overvoltage on the 120/240
power lines. This is not a "surge", which is very short duration. Both
service panel and plug-in suppressors will rapidly be destroyed by long
duration events. "Too small for your location" is nonsense.
>
> A properly sized plug-in protector does not fail on one surge. To
> increase profit margins and to get the naive to recommend that
> protector, some protectors are grossly undersized. Surge apparently
> was rather small.
The service panel suppressor was killed, so w_'s comments on plug-in
suppressors are more are nonsense. But w_ has a religious compulsion to
attack plug-in suppressors. The description indicates the event was not
a "surge".
The plug-in suppressor that was off is probably OK.
--
bud--
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Posted by N8N on June 2, 2008, 4:26 pm
>
>
.com:
>
> <snip>
>
> > > > Secondly, has
> > > > anyone had any luck with going through the power company to pay for =
some
> > > > of this damage (the air filter is maybe 6 mos. old) or is homeowner'=
s
> > > > insurance the place to start? =A0If the latter, I might be tempted t=
o pay
> > > > out of pocket to avoid a rate increase.
>
> > > No experience here,but I would contact the power company first.
>
> > Yeah, I will do that tomorrow once I have a chance to try all the
> > major appliances, I still haven't tried the dishwasher, washing
> > machine, or dryer, although the only failures so far seem to be the
> > air filter and the one surge strip, which based on the date on the
> > back was over 10 years old anyway.
>
> OK, well, let me rephrase that. =A0The only failures are the air filter,
> one surge strip, and the dishwasher, which was installed literally the
> week before we bought the house. =A0Grr. =A0So there will be no cleaning
> of the furnace filters today.
>
> I haven't tried the A/C yet either, which is also new.
>
> The washer (ancient) and dryer (new) seem to be OK.
>
> This could be an expensive experience.
>
> nate
Follow up: finally got a response from the power company. To
paraphrase: urinate on some woven hemp in a direction opposite that of
gravity. Basically they said that their "investigation" determined
that a live tree had fallen on some power lines shorting a high
voltage line to a lower voltage line and that the tree was outside
their right of way so not their problem blah blah blah.
I guess I'm eating this one because my costs are of the same order of
magnitude as my homeowner's insurance deductible, and we already made
a claim for a water heater that done blowed up last year, so a)
there's not much point in it and b) I don't want to end up on anyone's
"high risk" list.
I am glad however that I was able to troubleshoot the issues myself
and at least narrow it down to board level repairs although I decided
not to try to take it down to component level because I did really
expect that this was going to get paid for.
I feel bad for my neighbor/coworker now, he said he lost a couple big
screens :(
nate
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