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Posted by on June 15, 2005, 2:49 pm
... and watch that the driver doesn't add water to move the mix down
the chute.
The Navy had to rework a three story building because the inspector
didn't pay attention.
Engineer and lawyers spent a couple of months strugglng over that until
a fired employee spilled the beans.
TB
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Posted by P.Fritz on June 15, 2005, 3:04 pm
> Joe wrote:
>> Don't they measure or test that by measuring the "slump?"
>> *************************************************************
>> Yes they do but if the concrete measures a 6 slump, there is no way to
>> take water out of the concrete.
>> (the only way to stiffen up the concrete is to add more sand, aggregate
>> and cement)
>>
>
> And if it measures a 6" slump and you wanted a 4", then you send the truck
> back to the plant and ask for one that is to your specifications. You
> don't just take what they give you.
It is a little more difficult to send back when the test cylinders don't
meet compression days later :-)
>
> --
> Robert Allison Rimshot, Inc.
> Georgetown, TX
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Posted by Bob Morrison on June 15, 2005, 3:14 pm
In a previous post P.Fritz says...
> It is a little more difficult to send back when the test cylinders don't
> meet compression days later :-)
>
That's when the trouble (and overtime for the engineer) really starts!
I have had to require that the contractor tear out the bad stuff and
replace with new. Finger pointing gets started in earnest at that
point.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
Structural & Civil Engineering
Poulsbo WA
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Posted by P.Fritz on June 15, 2005, 3:48 pm
> In a previous post P.Fritz says...
>> It is a little more difficult to send back when the test cylinders don't
>> meet compression days later :-)
>>
>
> That's when the trouble (and overtime for the engineer) really starts!
>
> I have had to require that the contractor tear out the bad stuff and
> replace with new. Finger pointing gets started in earnest at that
> point.
But it is always the contractor's fault :-)
>
> --
> Bob Morrison, PE, SE
> R L Morrison Engineering Co
> Structural & Civil Engineering
> Poulsbo WA
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Posted by Robert Allison on June 15, 2005, 5:11 pm
Bob Morrison wrote:
> In a previous post P.Fritz says...
>
>>It is a little more difficult to send back when the test cylinders don't
>>meet compression days later :-)
>>
>
>
> That's when the trouble (and overtime for the engineer) really starts!
>
> I have had to require that the contractor tear out the bad stuff and
> replace with new. Finger pointing gets started in earnest at that
> point.
>
And I have had to tear out concrete that didn't break at the
spec'd pressure after 28 days. I didn't pay for it though,
the cement plant did. They paid for the new concrete, the
labor, the disposal of the old concrete, everything.
When you do this to them a couple of times, they start paying
close attention to the mix and their quality controls at the
plant. Whenever I order concrete now, I always tell them that
the testing lab will be there to take samples and do a slump
test (whether they are or not). They are minding their Ps and
Qs, then.
We have had the odd batch not break at 3500 or 3000, but it is
usually in an area where it doesn't matter, so it doesn't have
to be torn out. They sometimes break at 2900 or 3400, but for
a slab on grade, that is fine. When you get into retaining
walls and other critical systems, the heat is on, and if you
have all of your paperwork in order, it is on the supplier.
Whenever I have to call the plant and tell them that their
concrete is subpar, the first question I always get is How
much water did you add? For that reason, I always have the
drivers indicate on the delivery ticket if water was added and
who requested it. Sometimes the drivers will add water on the
way to the job to keep the mix turning. If it is a spec'd job
with tests in place, that can come back to haunt them.
Moral: Always keep your delivery tickets, indicate water
added, and test, test, test.
--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX
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