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Re: slab thickness

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Re: slab thickness ConcreteFinishing&StuccoGuy 06-14-2005
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Posted by RicodJour on June 30, 2005, 11:08 pm
Matt Whiting wrote:
>
> Good guess. Yes, just returned from two weeks driving around the
> southwest in NV, AZ, CO and UT. Nice country for a visit. A little
> warm (I have a shot of the car thermometer at 108 or something
> ridiculous like that), but with the low humidity I found it very
> comfortable compared to PA with our 95 and 95 conditions.

I'm guessing Four Corners, Grand Canyon, Mesa Verde and maybe Bryce.
How much did you lose in Vegas? Oh, right, what happens in Vegas stays
in Vegas. ;)

I rode my bicycle through that area one summer. Never got above 124 F
in the shade. I'll take the humidity.

R


Posted by Matt Whiting on July 1, 2005, 5:47 am
RicodJour wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>Good guess. Yes, just returned from two weeks driving around the
>>southwest in NV, AZ, CO and UT. Nice country for a visit. A little
>>warm (I have a shot of the car thermometer at 108 or something
>>ridiculous like that), but with the low humidity I found it very
>>comfortable compared to PA with our 95 and 95 conditions.
>
>
> I'm guessing Four Corners, Grand Canyon, Mesa Verde and maybe Bryce.
> How much did you lose in Vegas? Oh, right, what happens in Vegas stays
> in Vegas. ;)
>
> I rode my bicycle through that area one summer. Never got above 124 F
> in the shade. I'll take the humidity.

Well, this is pretty fat OT already, but we hit the above and in
addition several things around Colorado Springs (Pikes Peak, Garden of
the Gods, Cave of the Winds, etc.), as well as Zion in addition to Bryce
and a few other things. It was a fun two weeks.

The temps stayed right around 100 in Vegas which was the warmest area.
Colorado Springs was nice with temps in the upper 80s to lower 90s. Did
have one whopper of a thunderstorm the afternoon that we ate lunch at
Solo's, which is a restaurant inside an old airplane (KC-97 tanker).
Man was it loud when the 1/2" hail began to hit the aluminum!

I'm not a gambler so I didn't even enter a casino in Vegas. The only
money I lost there was on souvenirs! :-)


Matt

Posted by Matt Whiting on June 30, 2005, 5:40 pm
RicodJour wrote:

> Bob Morrison wrote:
>
>>In a previous post Matt Whiting says...
>>
>>>>CF&SG is correct in that rebar and lower water content will improve
>>>>structural performance. However, only the latter will have any effect
>>>>on crack control.
>>>
>>>Yes, but rebar will help prevent problems is there is a soft spot in the
>>>ground under the slab that settles a little. It can also prevent cracks
>>>from opening up or shifting vertically.
>>
>>Quite true. However, I tell the contractors to spend their time and
>>effort on subgrade preparation. It's easier to do than correctly
>>placing rebar, and with the current price of steel may even be cheaper.
>>
>>A good unreinforced slab on properly prepared subgrade with adequate
>>crack control should not have any problems.
>
>
> NY Code for concrete cover of reinforcing
>
> TABLE 1907.7.1
> MINIMUM CONCRETE COVER
>
>
> MINIMUM
>
> COVER
>
> CONCRETE EXPOSURE inches
>
>
>
> 1. Concrete cast against and permanently exposed to earth 3
>
> 2. Concrete exposed to earth or weather
>
> No. 6 through No. 18 bar 2
>
> No. 5 bar, W31 or D31 wire, and smaller 1-1/2
>
>
> If I'm reading that right, and you can figure out a way to cast the
> driveway above grade and then lower it into place (!), you can go with
> as little as a 3" slab. Otherwise you need 6" if it's cast in place
> and reinforced.
>
> Weird thing. If you _reinforce_ it, code requires a thicker slab!
>
> Bob's got it right, the slab doesn't move unless something underneath
> it does. Preparation - drainage, compaction, etc. - is the key.

Absolutely correct, but the problem is that you can't guarantee that
something won't move. Thus a little reinforcement is, IMO, cheap insurance.

Matt

Posted by RicodJour on June 30, 2005, 5:45 pm
Matt Whiting wrote:
> Rico
> >
> > Bob's got it right, the slab doesn't move unless something underneath
> > it does. Preparation - drainage, compaction, etc. - is the key.
>
> Absolutely correct, but the problem is that you can't guarantee that
> something won't move. Thus a little reinforcement is, IMO, cheap insurance.

Much like the single guy with no dependents buying life insurance.
It's cheap, but is it necessary? Too many people think that it is a
panacea for all problems concrete. It's not. Just like painting, slab
on grade results are all in the preparation.

R


Posted by Matt Whiting on June 30, 2005, 6:41 pm
RicodJour wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>
>>Rico
>>
>>>Bob's got it right, the slab doesn't move unless something underneath
>>>it does. Preparation - drainage, compaction, etc. - is the key.
>>
>>Absolutely correct, but the problem is that you can't guarantee that
>>something won't move. Thus a little reinforcement is, IMO, cheap insurance.
>
>
> Much like the single guy with no dependents buying life insurance.
> It's cheap, but is it necessary? Too many people think that it is a
> panacea for all problems concrete. It's not. Just like painting, slab
> on grade results are all in the preparation.

Not a good analogy at all. I've seen many slabs crack and shift up to
an inch even with what appeared to be proper preparation. And there is
a major road nearby that hs shifted nearly 6' in one set of lanes of a
divided highway. I'm sure the construction company thought they had
prepared the soil properly also, but my point is that you can't always
be sure.


Matt

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