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Receptacles wired backwards.. methochias 09-15-2007
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Posted by on September 15, 2007, 4:14 pm
I'm in an old apartment and I'm rewiring my receptacles because they
have no ground. I have some odd situations.

Most are two prong receptacles, but some are 3 prong. I tested the
voltage on them. The 3 prong I tested showed about 60v from ground
screw to the small slot-HOT and60v from the ground screw to the large
slot(NEUT). Also, 120v from the small slot to the cold water pipe.

The two prong showed 101v from the large slot to the radiator pipe,
and 0v from the small slot to the radiator pipe (wrapped a piece of
copper wire around the corroded valve stem).

Now, the large slot is supposed to be neutral and 0 volts to the
ground/waterpipes/etc. and the small slot is suppsed to be hot.

Question is 1) Would it hurt to rewire the recepticles to large-
neutral, small-hot. I'm imagining a situation where one day I plug
something in with the ground and hot shorted... What should I check
and look out for?

and 2) what's the best way to run the ground wire? I think it's tacky
to run a 12ga (black insulated) from the green screw on the new outlet
outside the outlet cover, along the baseboard to the radiator. How is
this *supposed* to be done?

THanks, JB


Radiant Heat 468x60
Posted by RBM on September 15, 2007, 4:27 pm
You're getting strange readings because you don't have a ground. The proper
way to retrofit a ground conductor is to run it from the metal outlet box or
receptacle to your service panel ground bar, or any other part of the
grounding electrode system, which doesn't include radiators



> I'm in an old apartment and I'm rewiring my receptacles because they
> have no ground. I have some odd situations.
>
> Most are two prong receptacles, but some are 3 prong. I tested the
> voltage on them. The 3 prong I tested showed about 60v from ground
> screw to the small slot-HOT and60v from the ground screw to the large
> slot(NEUT). Also, 120v from the small slot to the cold water pipe.
>
> The two prong showed 101v from the large slot to the radiator pipe,
> and 0v from the small slot to the radiator pipe (wrapped a piece of
> copper wire around the corroded valve stem).
>
> Now, the large slot is supposed to be neutral and 0 volts to the
> ground/waterpipes/etc. and the small slot is suppsed to be hot.
>
> Question is 1) Would it hurt to rewire the recepticles to large-
> neutral, small-hot. I'm imagining a situation where one day I plug
> something in with the ground and hot shorted... What should I check
> and look out for?
>
> and 2) what's the best way to run the ground wire? I think it's tacky
> to run a 12ga (black insulated) from the green screw on the new outlet
> outside the outlet cover, along the baseboard to the radiator. How is
> this *supposed* to be done?
>
> THanks, JB
>



Posted by DerbyDad03 on September 15, 2007, 4:52 pm
> You're getting strange readings because you don't have a ground. The proper
> way to retrofit a ground conductor is to run it from the metal outlet box or
> receptacle to your service panel ground bar, or any other part of the
> grounding electrode system, which doesn't include radiators
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm in an old apartment and I'm rewiring my receptacles because they
> > have no ground. I have some odd situations.
>
> > Most are two prong receptacles, but some are 3 prong. I tested the
> > voltage on them. The 3 prong I tested showed about 60v from ground
> > screw to the small slot-HOT and60v from the ground screw to the large
> > slot(NEUT). Also, 120v from the small slot to the cold water pipe.
>
> > The two prong showed 101v from the large slot to the radiator pipe,
> > and 0v from the small slot to the radiator pipe (wrapped a piece of
> > copper wire around the corroded valve stem).
>
> > Now, the large slot is supposed to be neutral and 0 volts to the
> > ground/waterpipes/etc. and the small slot is suppsed to be hot.
>
> > Question is 1) Would it hurt to rewire the recepticles to large-
> > neutral, small-hot. I'm imagining a situation where one day I plug
> > something in with the ground and hot shorted... What should I check
> > and look out for?
>
> > and 2) what's the best way to run the ground wire? I think it's tacky
> > to run a 12ga (black insulated) from the green screw on the new outlet
> > outside the outlet cover, along the baseboard to the radiator. How is
> > this *supposed* to be done?
>
> > THanks, JB- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Two comments that trouble me:

"I'm in an old apartment and I'm rewiring my receptacles"

Are you sure you want to mess with the wires in a dwelling you don't
own? This should be handled by the landlord/management company. You
could be liable for any damage/injury you cause during/after the
rewiring project.

"...run a 12ga (black insulated) from the green screw..."

A ground wire is typically bare or green in residential wiring. Black
might be ground (negative) in a DC circuit, but never in a residential
120VAC circuit.



Posted by on September 15, 2007, 5:13 pm
>
>
>
>
>
> > You're getting strange readings because you don't have a ground. The proper
> > way to retrofit a ground conductor is to run it from the metal outlet box or
> > receptacle to your service panel ground bar, or any other part of the
> > grounding electrode system, which doesn't include radiators
>
>
>
> > > I'm in an old apartment and I'm rewiring my receptacles because they
> > > have no ground. I have some odd situations.
>
> > > Most are two prong receptacles, but some are 3 prong. I tested the
> > > voltage on them. The 3 prong I tested showed about 60v from ground
> > > screw to the small slot-HOT and60v from the ground screw to the large
> > > slot(NEUT). Also, 120v from the small slot to the cold water pipe.
>
> > > The two prong showed 101v from the large slot to the radiator pipe,
> > > and 0v from the small slot to the radiator pipe (wrapped a piece of
> > > copper wire around the corroded valve stem).
>
> > > Now, the large slot is supposed to be neutral and 0 volts to the
> > > ground/waterpipes/etc. and the small slot is suppsed to be hot.
>
> > > Question is 1) Would it hurt to rewire the recepticles to large-
> > > neutral, small-hot. I'm imagining a situation where one day I plug
> > > something in with the ground and hot shorted... What should I check
> > > and look out for?
>
> > > and 2) what's the best way to run the ground wire? I think it's tacky
> > > to run a 12ga (black insulated) from the green screw on the new outlet
> > > outside the outlet cover, along the baseboard to the radiator. How is
> > > this *supposed* to be done?
>
> > > THanks, JB- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Two comments that trouble me:
>
> "I'm in an old apartment and I'm rewiring my receptacles"
>
> Are you sure you want to mess with the wires in a dwelling you don't
> own? This should be handled by the landlord/management company. You
> could be liable for any damage/injury you cause during/after the
> rewiring project.
Point taken, the landlord is a friend of mine and I'm just looking
into it for now.. looks like more than I want to do.

>
> "...run a 12ga (black insulated) from the green screw..."
>
> A ground wire is typically bare or green in residential wiring. Black
> might be ground (negative) in a DC circuit, but never in a residential
> 120VAC circuit.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yeh, I was pretty sure I didn't want to use black except that's what I
have laying around. Looks like it's not such a good idea anyways.
Seems like everyone says 'eh, just ground it to the cold water
pipe'..


Thanks.


Posted by Matt J. McCullar on September 15, 2007, 10:44 pm
> Point taken, the landlord is a friend of mine and I'm just looking
> into it for now.. looks like more than I want to do.
>

I gotta go with the original poster. Keep the landlord as a friend and let
an outside professional do it. That way, if ANYTHING happens, it can't
possibly be traced back to you, no matter what.

As a f'rinstance: as a ham radio operator, I've read old ham radio books
from the '60s and '70s when ham radios were often sources of television
interference. This wasn't because the ham rigs were operating outside of
their bands, it was because TV sets back then didn' t have adequate
filtering to prevent ham signals from getting in. If a neighbor sees your
antennas and complains, he doesn't want to hear "You've gotta buy a filter
for your antenna." As a sign of goodwill, you can give him a cheap antenna
filter, but here's the kicker -- and what the books scream in
"sky-is-falling" type: Don't touch the neighbor's TV set. Let him install
the filter; don't install it for him. If you so much as look hard at his
set, he's got you nailed for all time. "It worked all right until you
fooled with it!" And he'll expect free TV repair out of you forever.

So let's assume that this old electrical wiring in this old apartment soon
causes a fire. If you ever touched a screwdriver to any of it, guess what.

CYA,

Matt J. McCullar
Arlington, TX




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