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Remodelling & lead-based paint naztazia 09-12-2006
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Posted by Pat on September 12, 2006, 7:09 pm

TakenEvent wrote:
> > My husband and I normally do all the remodelling in this house.
> > Previous owners said the outside wood siding (underneath the current
> > vinyl siding) has lead-based paint on it. Had the whole house tested
> > and sure enough only the outside has lead.
> >
> > Husband refuses to install two much-needed new bay windows in 2
> > separate front rooms. Called several "good" contractors in the area -
> > none of them have procedures to carefully remove old windows without
> > disturbing (or at least taking precautions against) lead-based paint
> > dust. One said he did this for 20 years and no one has ever asked him
> > about lead.
> >
> > I have an infant whose new fascination is putting everything in her
> > mouth.
> >
> > Am I being overly cautious? Should I just let the contractors do their
> > thing and just clean up stuff myself afterwards? (HEPA filters, TSP
> > soap, etc.) Is it unreasonable to expect a contractor to do things
> > properly with regards to lead?
>
>
> Lead is not a big deal in your case. Keep the infant away from the
> construction, and clean up the yard after it's done using a rake and a shop
> vac.

Shouldn't rake or use shop vac. Use HEPA vac. You can rent them if you
don't have one. If you use shop vac., put on the wet filter and use it
do control dust. You don't want dust coming out of the vacuum.

If you keep the jobsite clean, there shouldn't be enough exposure to
> harm your baby. Lead poisoning comes mostly in the form of either eating
> paint chips or continual exposure to the dust. People have been surviving
> both the application of lead paint and living in homes covered in lead paint
> for a very, very, long time.

Yes. And a wall painted with lead paint is perfectly safe as long as
it is in good shape, not getting abraded, etc.

>
> Here's a link for more info:
> http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/5054.html
>
> Don't let that contractor fool you; notices regarding lead paint are on
> every paint can these days. There won't really be a lot of lead exposure
> when installing windows. If the contractor has to cut or sand wood coated
> with lead paint, he can wear a dust mask or respirator, though with 20 years
> of experience I doubt this'll be the proverbial straw.

Generally work should be done in a matter to mitigate or eliminate
dust. Wet sanding, for example. Cutting should be done wet. Before
pulling windows, etc. cut through paint with sheetrock knife to control
chipping.

>
> If your exterior paint contains lead, you should definitely paint the house.
> That will take care of the dust and much of the chipping. There is no good
> reason for not getting your windows installed.


Electric Radiant Heat 468x60
Posted by RicodJour on September 12, 2006, 3:13 pm

naztazia@gmail.com wrote:
> My husband and I normally do all the remodelling in this house.
> Previous owners said the outside wood siding (underneath the current
> vinyl siding) has lead-based paint on it. Had the whole house tested
> and sure enough only the outside has lead.
>
> Husband refuses to install two much-needed new bay windows in 2
> separate front rooms. Called several "good" contractors in the area -
> none of them have procedures to carefully remove old windows without
> disturbing (or at least taking precautions against) lead-based paint
> dust. One said he did this for 20 years and no one has ever asked him
> about lead.
>
> I have an infant whose new fascination is putting everything in her
> mouth.
>
> Am I being overly cautious? Should I just let the contractors do their
> thing and just clean up stuff myself afterwards? (HEPA filters, TSP
> soap, etc.) Is it unreasonable to expect a contractor to do things
> properly with regards to lead?

Of course. For a price. As soon as you start talking about
remediation and abatement (lead, asbestos and other toxins) the price
jumps by a factor of five or ten.

Is it possible that those "badly needed" bay windows are actually just
greatly desired? If so, waiting until the kid outgrows the oral thing
might be the easiest solution. It's not like it's forever.

If you're sure it's only the old siding that has the lead paint it's
not such a big deal. If the window is shut tightly there's little
chance of any lead dust or chips getting inside. Cover the ground with
plastic tarps to contain the chips and small stuff and keep it out of
the soil. Demo just the siding, cut back as much as necessary to
facilitate patching so you won't be distrubing the lead-painted siding
again later on. Lightly spray down the affected siding area with a
mist of water (two gallon pump sprayer works well) as you work - that
will help keep the dust down. When you're done with the demo give a
final rinse, remove the window carefully, pick up the tarps and you're
done.

R


Posted by Pat on September 12, 2006, 7:19 pm

RicodJour wrote:
> naztazia@gmail.com wrote:
> > My husband and I normally do all the remodelling in this house.
> > Previous owners said the outside wood siding (underneath the current
> > vinyl siding) has lead-based paint on it. Had the whole house tested
> > and sure enough only the outside has lead.
> >
> > Husband refuses to install two much-needed new bay windows in 2
> > separate front rooms. Called several "good" contractors in the area -
> > none of them have procedures to carefully remove old windows without
> > disturbing (or at least taking precautions against) lead-based paint
> > dust. One said he did this for 20 years and no one has ever asked him
> > about lead.
> >
> > I have an infant whose new fascination is putting everything in her
> > mouth.
> >
> > Am I being overly cautious? Should I just let the contractors do their
> > thing and just clean up stuff myself afterwards? (HEPA filters, TSP
> > soap, etc.) Is it unreasonable to expect a contractor to do things
> > properly with regards to lead?
>
> Of course. For a price. As soon as you start talking about
> remediation and abatement (lead, asbestos and other toxins) the price
> jumps by a factor of five or ten.
>
> Is it possible that those "badly needed" bay windows are actually just
> greatly desired? If so, waiting until the kid outgrows the oral thing
> might be the easiest solution. It's not like it's forever.
>
> If you're sure it's only the old siding that has the lead paint it's
> not such a big deal. If the window is shut tightly there's little
> chance of any lead dust or chips getting inside. Cover the ground with
> plastic tarps to contain the chips and small stuff and keep it out of
> the soil. Demo just the siding, cut back as much as necessary to
> facilitate patching so you won't be distrubing the lead-painted siding
> again later on. Lightly spray down the affected siding area with a
> mist of water (two gallon pump sprayer works well) as you work - that
> will help keep the dust down. When you're done with the demo give a
> final rinse, remove the window carefully, pick up the tarps and you're
> done.
>
> R

That's pretty much it. Work wet. Work carefully.

She doesn't need remediation or abatement. She need Lead Control and
Safe Work Practices. It should add much. You're probably used to
seeing remediation because you work on bigger projects -- so
remediation is necessary. But for this it is just control.

Might consider removing and replacing all wood around window that you
can get at without damaging siding, just to get rid of it.

Water can go down a drain. Put plastic in double garbage bags. Wrap
window and plastic.

BTW, Rico, did you know that on a Federally subsidized project that
needs remediation or abatement; that you can't enter the site without
taking the lead course. It's an interesting law because says the
architect and building inspector can't enter the work site. Talk about
a problem for getting draws. I run grant programs and I took the
course just so I can enter sites if I want to. It's a good idea for
architects for the same reason.

Pat.


Posted by Stubby on September 12, 2006, 3:36 pm
Most states now require a lead paint inspection when a property is sold.
This is especially true of an older home, the theory being a todler
hangs on the window sills inside and chews them. As it turns out, lead
has a sweet taste that encourages this.

Call the real estate board in your state and ask. Maybe a statement
saying there is no lead (radon, asbestos, evil spirits of recently
passed individuals, ...) is sufficient. Maybe you will have to put
money in escrow for some time until the problem is fixed... There are
lots of solutions.


naztazia@gmail.com wrote:
> My husband and I normally do all the remodelling in this house.
> Previous owners said the outside wood siding (underneath the current
> vinyl siding) has lead-based paint on it. Had the whole house tested
> and sure enough only the outside has lead.
>
> Husband refuses to install two much-needed new bay windows in 2
> separate front rooms. Called several "good" contractors in the area -
> none of them have procedures to carefully remove old windows without
> disturbing (or at least taking precautions against) lead-based paint
> dust. One said he did this for 20 years and no one has ever asked him
> about lead.
>
> I have an infant whose new fascination is putting everything in her
> mouth.
>
> Am I being overly cautious? Should I just let the contractors do their
> thing and just clean up stuff myself afterwards? (HEPA filters, TSP
> soap, etc.) Is it unreasonable to expect a contractor to do things
> properly with regards to lead?
>
> Thanks.
>

Posted by Pat on September 12, 2006, 6:42 pm

naztazia@gmail.com wrote:
> My husband and I normally do all the remodelling in this house.
> Previous owners said the outside wood siding (underneath the current
> vinyl siding) has lead-based paint on it. Had the whole house tested
> and sure enough only the outside has lead.
>
> Husband refuses to install two much-needed new bay windows in 2
> separate front rooms. Called several "good" contractors in the area -
> none of them have procedures to carefully remove old windows without
> disturbing (or at least taking precautions against) lead-based paint
> dust. One said he did this for 20 years and no one has ever asked him
> about lead.
>
> I have an infant whose new fascination is putting everything in her
> mouth.
>
> Am I being overly cautious? Should I just let the contractors do their
> thing and just clean up stuff myself afterwards? (HEPA filters, TSP
> soap, etc.) Is it unreasonable to expect a contractor to do things
> properly with regards to lead?
>

Okay, first off don't panic.

Yes. Lead is a concern. It is not earth shattering, but still a
concern.

No. Lead poisoning is not "bad parenting" or "gettos". Put a penny in
your mouth and it taste like copper. Put a nickle in and it has a
taste, too. So does lead. It is sweat so kids want to eat it.

No, it will cost 10X more and you will NOT do abatement. You want
"lead control" and "safe work practices."

If you and your husband are reasonably handy, you can do the work
yourself. HUD, most states, and many gov'ts have free or low cost
courses to teach contractors to work lead safe. You can take the
course. 1 day. It is as exciting as watching lead paint dry.

Let me give you an example. Say you want to drill a hole through a
wall with lead paint. It creates dust. Dust creates problems. So you
put the drill bit where you want it, then spray a big old glob of
shaving cream on the entire area. Then you drill. No dust. No mess.
You clean it up with a wash cloth. And it's not 10X more expensive.

Start with:
http://www.hud.gov/offices/lead/
.
That will eventually lead you to: http://www.leadsafetraining.org/
Find a class near you.

If there is not one near you, find a local community (most cities) with
either a Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) program or a Section
8 program. Ask them to find a local training for you. Both will also
have a list of contractors who have training because they must test all
homes and use safe work practices.

For windows, you will find that they put up plastic to seal up the
inside. Put down a plastic drop cloth outside. Then wet down the
area. They will work wet. Then they will carefully clean the inside
using wet cleaning (damp cloth, not broom). Then vacuum the area,
including the outside, using a HEPA vacuum.

You can do it yourself. It is a bit slower and you need to work in a
manner to minimize dust and debris. But get the training or have the
contractor get the training.

Remember, you are after safe work practices and to some extent
mitigation, you are NOT after abatement. Yes, abatement is very
expensive. For your purposes, your siding is perfectly safe because it
is under vinyl. That paint isn't going to hurt anyone. For abatement,
you have to remove it anyway.

Check you windows for chipped or peeling paint (and dust) and use wet
methods to clean and then paint over with good quality non-lead paint.

You should also consider testing the ground around the dripline of your
house. That might have lead from the pre-vinyl days. If so, there are
a few things you can do. But it might be best to lay down a few inches
a clean topsoil in the area to be extra cautious for your darling
daughter.

So for the sake of maritial harmony, I will say that you both are
right. Your husband is right that he should not do it. And you are
right that you should be concerned over it. But with a one day course,
you can get the training you need so that you can do it.

Sorry for the long post. Good luck.










> Thanks.


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