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Removing Roll Pins barleypop5 12-30-2007
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Posted by on December 30, 2007, 7:30 pm
I just had to replace the spring on a trailer jack. This is the
spring that snaps the lock lever into the hole on the frame to lock
the jack in place, either down for jacking, or up for hauling. I
thought this would be simple. I had an old drum brake spring that was
almost the same size, so all I had to do was remove the roll pin,
replace the spring and put the roll pin back.

WRONG..... This turned out to be a nightmare of a job.
The roll pin would not come out. I'm sure it was rusty, so I soaked
it with PB Blaster. I hammered on it with a punch, and it got a flat
end, meaning it would not pass thru the hole. But I figured I'd
hammer it loose and then remove it from the other side. Instead, it
broke off. I went to the other side and broke that side too. I took
my grinder and flattened the end of the pin to remove the spring and
the whole thing from the jack. I placed the part in my vice and
hammered for a half hour, and it would not budge. Now this is just a
1/8" roll pin, nothing large, so common sense says it should have come
out by hammering.

I placed the part in my drill press and decided to drill it out. I
applied PB Blaster as a cutting oil and began drilling. The bit
penetrated less than 1/32 of an inch before the drill bit just turned
red and shattered. What ever metal those roll pins are made of, is
extremely hard. I got another bit, and a minute later the tip of the
bit was flat, and I had only gone in another 1/32 of an inch. Teo
more bits and I was a little more than halfway thru the 1/2" thick
piece of steel. I found a slightly larger bit, and one that was a top
quality bit. That one threw sparks, but kept biting in, very slowly.

90% of the way thru the 1/2" shaft, that bit broke. I did not have
any more bits that would fit. I finally took the broken piece of the
bit and applied as much pressure on the drill press handle as I could.
About the time the bit was glowing red, it broke thru. Total time
spent drilling - almost 3 hours. Total time on entire job, 4 hours 20
min. Plus $10 to $15 worth of drill bits. (Next time I'll replace
the jack).

How in the hell are roll pins supposed to be removed? No matter what
you do, they are going to flatten on the end, and of course then they
dont come out. I'm sure my rusty one did not help, but still, it
should have come out easier than it did.

The rest of the job was easy. I installed the new spring, and
replaced the roll pin with a cotter pin rather than another roll pin.
Cotter pins come out much easier and can be drilled out with any bit
if needed. If I never see another roll pin, it will be a good thing.


Electric Radiant Heat 468x60
Posted by Big Al on December 30, 2007, 7:44 pm

>I just had to replace the spring on a trailer jack. This is the
> spring that snaps the lock lever into the hole on the frame to lock
> the jack in place, either down for jacking, or up for hauling. I
> thought this would be simple. I had an old drum brake spring that was
> almost the same size, so all I had to do was remove the roll pin,
> replace the spring and put the roll pin back.
>
> WRONG..... This turned out to be a nightmare of a job.
> The roll pin would not come out. I'm sure it was rusty, so I soaked
> it with PB Blaster. I hammered on it with a punch, and it got a flat
> end, meaning it would not pass thru the hole. But I figured I'd
> hammer it loose and then remove it from the other side. Instead, it
> broke off. I went to the other side and broke that side too. I took
> my grinder and flattened the end of the pin to remove the spring and
> the whole thing from the jack. I placed the part in my vice and
> hammered for a half hour, and it would not budge. Now this is just a
> 1/8" roll pin, nothing large, so common sense says it should have come
> out by hammering.
>
> I placed the part in my drill press and decided to drill it out. I
> applied PB Blaster as a cutting oil and began drilling. The bit
> penetrated less than 1/32 of an inch before the drill bit just turned
> red and shattered. What ever metal those roll pins are made of, is
> extremely hard. I got another bit, and a minute later the tip of the
> bit was flat, and I had only gone in another 1/32 of an inch. Teo
> more bits and I was a little more than halfway thru the 1/2" thick
> piece of steel. I found a slightly larger bit, and one that was a top
> quality bit. That one threw sparks, but kept biting in, very slowly.
>
> 90% of the way thru the 1/2" shaft, that bit broke. I did not have
> any more bits that would fit. I finally took the broken piece of the
> bit and applied as much pressure on the drill press handle as I could.
> About the time the bit was glowing red, it broke thru. Total time
> spent drilling - almost 3 hours. Total time on entire job, 4 hours 20
> min. Plus $10 to $15 worth of drill bits. (Next time I'll replace
> the jack).
>
> How in the hell are roll pins supposed to be removed? No matter what
> you do, they are going to flatten on the end, and of course then they
> dont come out. I'm sure my rusty one did not help, but still, it
> should have come out easier than it did.
>
> The rest of the job was easy. I installed the new spring, and
> replaced the roll pin with a cotter pin rather than another roll pin.
> Cotter pins come out much easier and can be drilled out with any bit
> if needed. If I never see another roll pin, it will be a good thing.
>

Any chance the roll pin was bent? They are spring steel. Hard and tough, as
you know:)

Al



Posted by maxodyne on December 30, 2007, 8:15 pm
Big Al wrote:

<snip>
>>
>>How in the hell are roll pins supposed to be removed?
>>
>
>
> Any chance the roll pin was bent? They are spring steel. Hard and tough, as
> you know:)
>
> Al
>
>

There are roll pin punches designed for this purpose. Like Al says, roll
pins -- especially the higher-quality types -- are hard and tough. Like
spring steel, almost (high carbon steel, methinks). If the roll pin is
rusted, seized, or otherwise immobilized, even a roll pin punch might
not work.

Look for another thread on alt.home.repair with the subject "Extracting
broken bolt / screw" in which I ramble on about how to remove a broken
bolt with an oxy-acetylene cutting torch, even if you don't know how to
weld. You could apply the same technique to frozen roll pins.

The roll pin punch is basically the same as a pin punch or drift, but
with a rounded convex "bump" to help keep the punch more or less
centered in the roll pin. Below is a crude "usenet art" diagram of the
punching end, not the hammering end (to the right of the diagram), of a
roll pin punch. Visualize the solid punching end of a pin punch:

--------
|
) <-- bump keeps punch centered
|
--------

The above attempt is not to scale. On the roll pin punches that I own,
the bump takes up most of the punch's business end, leaving only a thin
margin which contacts the roll pin. They work pretty well, generally,
but they won't work in every situation.

Posted by hallerb@aol.com on December 30, 2007, 8:44 pm
> Big Al wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>
> >>How in the hell are roll pins supposed to be removed?
>
> > Any chance the roll pin was bent? They are spring steel. Hard and tough,=
as
> > you know:)
>
> > Al
>
> There are roll pin punches designed for this purpose. Like Al says, roll
> pins -- especially the higher-quality types -- are hard and tough. Like
> spring steel, almost (high carbon steel, methinks). If the roll pin is
> rusted, seized, or otherwise immobilized, even a roll pin punch might
> not work.
>
> Look for another thread on alt.home.repair with the subject "Extracting
> broken bolt / screw" in which I ramble on about how to remove a broken
> bolt with an oxy-acetylene cutting torch, even if you don't know how to
> weld. You could apply the same technique to frozen roll pins.
>
> The roll pin punch is basically the same as a pin punch or drift, but
> with a rounded convex "bump" to help keep the punch more or less
> centered in the roll pin. Below is a crude "usenet art" diagram of the
> punching end, not the hammering end (to the right of the diagram), of a
> roll pin punch. Visualize the solid punching end of a pin punch:
>
> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD --------
> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD |
> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD) =EF=
=BF=BD<-- bump keeps punch centered
> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD |
> =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD --------
>
> The above attempt is not to scale. On the roll pin punches that I own,
> the bump takes up most of the punch's business end, leaving only a thin
> margin which contacts the roll pin. They work pretty well, generally,
> but they won't work in every situation.

I used to fix a machine that used roll pins that customer abuse could
break but worse bend:(:(

often I replaced assemblies cause the pin couldnt be removed. frankly
i have hated roll pins ever since.

they rate right up there with allen screws some jerk tightens till the
wrench goes click click cl;ick:(

If you have something that uses roll pins its a good idea to give it a
shot of oil on a regular basis

Posted by Twayne on December 31, 2007, 12:09 pm
> Big Al wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>>
>>> How in the hell are roll pins supposed to be removed?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Any chance the roll pin was bent? They are spring steel. Hard and
>> tough, as you know:)
>>
>> Al
>>
>>
>
> There are roll pin punches designed for this purpose. Like Al says,
> roll pins -- especially the higher-quality types -- are hard and
> tough. Like spring steel, almost (high carbon steel, methinks). If
> the roll pin is rusted, seized, or otherwise immobilized, even a roll
> pin punch might not work.
>
> Look for another thread on alt.home.repair with the subject
> "Extracting broken bolt / screw" in which I ramble on about how to
> remove a broken bolt with an oxy-acetylene cutting torch, even if you
> don't know how to weld. You could apply the same technique to frozen
> roll pins.
> The roll pin punch is basically the same as a pin punch or drift, but
> with a rounded convex "bump" to help keep the punch more or less
> centered in the roll pin. Below is a crude "usenet art" diagram of the
> punching end, not the hammering end (to the right of the diagram), of
> a roll pin punch. Visualize the solid punching end of a pin punch:
>
> --------
> |
> ) <-- bump keeps punch centered
> |
> --------
>
> The above attempt is not to scale. On the roll pin punches that I own,
> the bump takes up most of the punch's business end, leaving only a
> thin margin which contacts the roll pin. They work pretty well,
> generally, but they won't work in every situation.

Thanks! I've wondered for YEARS what the heck some "donated" tools I
picked up were for!



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