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Replacing a hot water heater. Efficiency? Jay Pique 10-22-2006
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Posted by Bob F on October 23, 2006, 12:28 am



> Bob F wrote:
> >> Electric? It makes no difference as electric is 100% efficient. Just
buy a
> >> good quality, standard 40- 50 gallon, or whatever fits your needs
> >
> > Electric has losses also - depending on the insulation level of the
tank.
> > 100%
> > efficient? Only if you are heating the area with electric heat all the
time.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> It is 100 percent because the efficiency rating is
> based on the conversion of the heat potential of
> the fuel to the heat potential of the water. Loss
> of heat because of poor insulation of the tank
> etc. is not part of the "efficiency" rating. And
> it has to be that way because no one can predict
> or account for all the possible combinations of
> installation including outside (no protection),
> cold garage, small closet, etc. If efficiency did
> include other factors, gas water heaters would
> have a terrible efficiency (just think of that
> hole through the center of tank and the air heated
> by the hot water rising through the flue pipe to
> the outdoors.
>

Who cares about "ratings"? The fact is that some water heaters
are better insulated, and will cost you less to operate. They
lesser insulated ones are less "efficient". 100%? I don't think so.
Sure, they convert 100% of the energy to heat in the water. But
then they lose the heat to the environment. IF you use a cheaper
source of heat to heat your house, or if you want to cool it, that
is going to cost you money.

Bob



AppliancePartsPros.com, Inc.
Posted by George E. Cawthon on October 23, 2006, 8:17 pm


Bob F wrote:
>> Bob F wrote:
>>>> Electric? It makes no difference as electric is 100% efficient. Just
> buy a
>>>> good quality, standard 40- 50 gallon, or whatever fits your needs
>>> Electric has losses also - depending on the insulation level of the
> tank.
>>> 100%
>>> efficient? Only if you are heating the area with electric heat all the
> time.
>>> Bob
>>>
>>>
>> It is 100 percent because the efficiency rating is
>> based on the conversion of the heat potential of
>> the fuel to the heat potential of the water. Loss
>> of heat because of poor insulation of the tank
>> etc. is not part of the "efficiency" rating. And
>> it has to be that way because no one can predict
>> or account for all the possible combinations of
>> installation including outside (no protection),
>> cold garage, small closet, etc. If efficiency did
>> include other factors, gas water heaters would
>> have a terrible efficiency (just think of that
>> hole through the center of tank and the air heated
>> by the hot water rising through the flue pipe to
>> the outdoors.
>>
>
> Who cares about "ratings"? The fact is that some water heaters
> are better insulated, and will cost you less to operate. They
> lesser insulated ones are less "efficient". 100%? I don't think so.
> Sure, they convert 100% of the energy to heat in the water. But
> then they lose the heat to the environment. IF you use a cheaper
> source of heat to heat your house, or if you want to cool it, that
> is going to cost you money.
>
> Bob
>
>
Whoa, I just reread that for the 3rd time.

Posted by J. Clarke on October 22, 2006, 11:10 pm



>> Hello,
>>
>> I need to replace a hot water heater whose tank has cracked. Any
>> recommendations? I'm leaning towards just a straight replacement, with
>> a good energy rating. However, I've seen some articles on retrofit
>> recirculating systems, as well as "on-demand" hot water, and would like
>> to hear if anyone has any strong opinions. I'm willing to pay for an
>> efficient system provided it breaks even cost-wise over say 5 years.
>> Thanks.
>> JP
>>
>
> Electric? It makes no difference as electric is 100% efficient.

It is 100% efficient in turning electricity into heat. It is not 100%
efficient in transferring that heat to the water nor is it 100% efficient in
turning fuel into heat. It just moves the point of inefficiency from a
local burner to a generating plant.

> Just buy a good quality, standard 40- 50 gallon, or whatever fits your
> needs
> Now with gas the different heaters are too numerous to mention, but if you
> are looking for a 5 year payback, it ain't gonna happen! If it were me I
> would just go with a good quality 40 or 50 gallon natural draft heater and
> be done with it. It may not be the most efficient, but they are the most
> trust worthy as repairs go. Any thing in a water heater that requires
> electricity to run will most likely need repairs and there goes you
> payback! Plus the price for efficiency goes up fast killing any idea of a
> quick payback.
> As far as I am concerned, you ether a pay a premium for the equipment, or
> pay the utility, cost is about the same in the long run!
> Greg
>
>
>



Posted by Doug on October 23, 2006, 3:42 am


On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:00:15 -0500, "Greg O"

>> Hello,
>>
>> I need to replace a hot water heater whose tank has cracked. Any
>> recommendations? I'm leaning towards just a straight replacement, with
>> a good energy rating. However, I've seen some articles on retrofit
>> recirculating systems, as well as "on-demand" hot water, and would like
>> to hear if anyone has any strong opinions. I'm willing to pay for an
>> efficient system provided it breaks even cost-wise over say 5 years.
>> Thanks.
>> JP
>>
>
>Electric? It makes no difference as electric is 100% efficient. Just buy a
>good quality, standard 40- 50 gallon, or whatever fits your needs
>Now with gas the different heaters are too numerous to mention, but if you
>are looking for a 5 year payback, it ain't gonna happen! If it were me I
>would just go with a good quality 40 or 50 gallon natural draft heater and
>be done with it. It may not be the most efficient, but they are the most
>trust worthy as repairs go. Any thing in a water heater that requires
>electricity to run will most likely need repairs and there goes you payback!
>Plus the price for efficiency goes up fast killing any idea of a quick
>payback.
>As far as I am concerned, you ether a pay a premium for the equipment, or
>pay the utility, cost is about the same in the long run!
>Greg


I don't know why folks quote that old saw: "electric is 100%
efficient". It's a meaningless statement.

Electric usage for resistance heating may well be 100% efficient at
the end user site but that doesn't take into account the large losses
at the power plant, the distribution system, house wiring losses,
etc.

These combined losses are among the reasons why electric resistance
heating of anything is generally more expensive than natural gas,
unless the electric source is hydro or subsidized.

Doug

Posted by George E. Cawthon on October 23, 2006, 8:28 pm


Doug wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:00:15 -0500, "Greg O"
>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I need to replace a hot water heater whose tank has cracked. Any
>>> recommendations? I'm leaning towards just a straight replacement, with
>>> a good energy rating. However, I've seen some articles on retrofit
>>> recirculating systems, as well as "on-demand" hot water, and would like
>>> to hear if anyone has any strong opinions. I'm willing to pay for an
>>> efficient system provided it breaks even cost-wise over say 5 years.
>>> Thanks.
>>> JP
>>>
>> Electric? It makes no difference as electric is 100% efficient. Just buy a
>> good quality, standard 40- 50 gallon, or whatever fits your needs
>> Now with gas the different heaters are too numerous to mention, but if you
>> are looking for a 5 year payback, it ain't gonna happen! If it were me I
>> would just go with a good quality 40 or 50 gallon natural draft heater and
>> be done with it. It may not be the most efficient, but they are the most
>> trust worthy as repairs go. Any thing in a water heater that requires
>> electricity to run will most likely need repairs and there goes you payback!
>> Plus the price for efficiency goes up fast killing any idea of a quick
>> payback.
>> As far as I am concerned, you ether a pay a premium for the equipment, or
>> pay the utility, cost is about the same in the long run!
>> Greg
>
>
> I don't know why folks quote that old saw: "electric is 100%
> efficient". It's a meaningless statement.
>
> Electric usage for resistance heating may well be 100% efficient at
> the end user site but that doesn't take into account the large losses
> at the power plant, the distribution system, house wiring losses,
> etc.
>
> These combined losses are among the reasons why electric resistance
> heating of anything is generally more expensive than natural gas,
> unless the electric source is hydro or subsidized.
>
> Doug

Your argument ignores the fact that efficiency in
this context means the efficiency of conversion
from one type of energy to another, in this case
electricity to heat. Losses at the power plant
are the result of a different conversion,
converting coal or gas to electricity.

If you want to add up all the losses and cost you
have to include the cost of mining the metal in
the heater among about 10,000 other things.

Page 6 of 9       < 1 2 3 > last >>
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