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Posted by Clot on October 9, 2009, 10:00 am
Dan Musicant wrote:
> wrote:
>> Dan Musicant wrote:
>>> wrote:
>>>> Dan Musicant wrote:
>>>>> I'm in Berkeley, CA. The winters are mild, no snow, but there are
>>>>> nights when there's ice on outside surfaces in the morning.
>>>>> The garage roof (typical) is totally wasted. For the last several
>>>>> years I've been keeping water out of the single car garage (manual
>>>>> door, I don't keep a car in it, use it for storage) by putting on
>>>>> a fresh tarp (19' x 29') yearly. Of course, this entails buying a
>>>>> ~$50 tarp every year and taking 1/2 a day to replace last year's
>>>>> tarp. I tie down the corners and hang bricks every 8 feet or so
>>>>> from the grommets, to secure the tarp from the ravages of the
>>>>> winds. One wall of the garage needs a total rebuild, and I may
>>>>> try to do that myself, maybe hire somebody, maybe work with them.
>>>>> When I had the house reroofed with 50 year asphalt shingles (total
>>>>> tearoff) around 3-4 years ago I didn't think to ask the roofing
>>>>> company how much they'd charge to replace the roof on my garage.
>>>>> Even then, I had it in mind that I could maybe install metal
>>>>> roofing on it myself. I'd never think of doing a tar job myself,
>>>>> but metal I figure "why not?"
>>>>> The roof is flat (about 10' x 24') but I think there's a slight
>>>>> slope to it, being 1/4 inch height for every 2 feet of run (I'm
>>>>> going to measure the slope more carefully using a line level). On
>>>>> the low side right now is a rusted out old gutter, which I figure
>>>>> I could replace myself after installing the metal panels. The
>>>>> rafters are every 2 feet, 2x6's, and look to be in good shape.
>>>>> But the plywood (there's some 1x6 boards too!) is basically
>>>>> trashed, so I'd have to replace that stuff, or maybe not if I
>>>>> nail on nailing strips for metal roofing, no big deal either way.
>>>>> I have basic tools like a circle saw, saw horses, ladders, etc.
>>>>> and a concrete courtyard to work in.
>>>>> 1. Is it feasible for me to do this myself, and
>>>> Yes
>>>>> 2. How much would the materials cost?
>>>> If you are going to rebuild one wall, why not make use of the
>>>> opportunity to remove the roof, rebuild the wall - I know not which
>>>> - and at the same time put a greater fall to the roof.
>>> Interesting idea. The wall is the side wall, the one at the low end
>>> of the slight slope, so it has the rusted out gutter at the top.
>>> To make the slope greater I'd have to shim the rafters, gradually,
>>> more and more toward the other wall before attaching he nailing
>>> strips for the metal panels.
>> Could you lower that wall without losing too much height inside, or
>> would that cause other problems with two other walls?
> Don't know. What I see is that I think I'd need to attach strips to
> the tops of the rafters (there are 14 of them that run the width of
> the 10 foot wide garage), and those strips should vary continuously
> from 0 thickness at one end to at least 1.5 inches at the other. If I
> go to the trouble to make (or order) them, I should probably go for
> more than 1.5 inches and get additional slope to the minimal. The
> strips would be the width of the 2x6 rafters and I'd attach the new
> plywood or OSB to the tops of them.
That's another way to skin the cat.
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Posted by on October 7, 2009, 7:25 pm
wrote:
>Dan Musicant wrote:
>> I'm in Berkeley, CA. The winters are mild, no snow, but there are
>> nights when there's ice on outside surfaces in the morning.
>> The garage roof (typical) is totally wasted. For the last several
>> years I've been keeping water out of the single car garage (manual
>> door, I don't keep a car in it, use it for storage) by putting on a
>> fresh tarp (19' x 29') yearly. Of course, this entails buying a ~$50
>> tarp every year and taking 1/2 a day to replace last year's tarp. I
>> tie down the corners and hang bricks every 8 feet or so from the
>> grommets, to secure the tarp from the ravages of the winds. One wall
>> of the garage needs a total rebuild, and I may try to do that myself,
>> maybe hire somebody, maybe work with them.
>> When I had the house reroofed with 50 year asphalt shingles (total
>> tearoff) around 3-4 years ago I didn't think to ask the roofing
>> company how much they'd charge to replace the roof on my garage. Even
>> then, I had it in mind that I could maybe install metal roofing on it
>> myself. I'd never think of doing a tar job myself, but metal I figure
>> "why not?"
>> The roof is flat (about 10' x 24') but I think there's a slight slope
>> to it, being 1/4 inch height for every 2 feet of run (I'm going to
>> measure the slope more carefully using a line level). On the low side
>> right now is a rusted out old gutter, which I figure I could replace
>> myself after installing the metal panels. The rafters are every 2
>> feet, 2x6's, and look to be in good shape. But the plywood (there's
>> some 1x6 boards too!) is basically trashed, so I'd have to replace
>> that stuff, or maybe not if I nail on nailing strips for metal
>> roofing, no big deal either way. I have basic tools like a circle
>> saw, saw horses, ladders, etc. and a concrete courtyard to work in.
>> 1. Is it feasible for me to do this myself, and
>Yes
>> 2. How much would the materials cost?
>If you are going to rebuild one wall, why not make use of the opportunity to
>remove the roof, rebuild the wall - I know not which - and at the same time
>put a greater fall to the roof.
Re: my "put on a pitched roof" post - missed it was Berkely. I'd
still put more than minimum pitch on it, but no snow load and minimal
rain I'd just pull the old roof sheathing off, and cut 2X6 lumber in
half, corner to corner to form a wedge (2 out of each peice) and
spike that down on top of existing rafters (assuming they are sound),
strap across the rafters and put down formed sheet steel or aluminum
roofing. Should be able to buy it in lengths to fit with no joints and
just nail it down.
Then frame up the bad side wall and put the same metal vertical on the
wall like on a pole barn. Available pre-coated in just about any color
you would want, and will pretty well out live you.
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Posted by Dan Musicant on October 8, 2009, 3:35 pm
On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:25:02 -0400, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
:wrote:
:
:>Dan Musicant wrote:
:>> I'm in Berkeley, CA. The winters are mild, no snow, but there are
:>> nights when there's ice on outside surfaces in the morning.
:>>
:>> The garage roof (typical) is totally wasted. For the last several
:>> years I've been keeping water out of the single car garage (manual
:>> door, I don't keep a car in it, use it for storage) by putting on a
:>> fresh tarp (19' x 29') yearly. Of course, this entails buying a ~$50
:>> tarp every year and taking 1/2 a day to replace last year's tarp. I
:>> tie down the corners and hang bricks every 8 feet or so from the
:>> grommets, to secure the tarp from the ravages of the winds. One wall
:>> of the garage needs a total rebuild, and I may try to do that myself,
:>> maybe hire somebody, maybe work with them.
:>>
:>> When I had the house reroofed with 50 year asphalt shingles (total
:>> tearoff) around 3-4 years ago I didn't think to ask the roofing
:>> company how much they'd charge to replace the roof on my garage. Even
:>> then, I had it in mind that I could maybe install metal roofing on it
:>> myself. I'd never think of doing a tar job myself, but metal I figure
:>> "why not?"
:>>
:>> The roof is flat (about 10' x 24') but I think there's a slight slope
:>> to it, being 1/4 inch height for every 2 feet of run (I'm going to
:>> measure the slope more carefully using a line level). On the low side
:>> right now is a rusted out old gutter, which I figure I could replace
:>> myself after installing the metal panels. The rafters are every 2
:>> feet, 2x6's, and look to be in good shape. But the plywood (there's
:>> some 1x6 boards too!) is basically trashed, so I'd have to replace
:>> that stuff, or maybe not if I nail on nailing strips for metal
:>> roofing, no big deal either way. I have basic tools like a circle
:>> saw, saw horses, ladders, etc. and a concrete courtyard to work in.
:>>
:>> 1. Is it feasible for me to do this myself, and
:>
:>Yes
:>>
:>> 2. How much would the materials cost?
:>
:>If you are going to rebuild one wall, why not make use of the opportunity to
:>remove the roof, rebuild the wall - I know not which - and at the same time
:>put a greater fall to the roof.
:>
: Re: my "put on a pitched roof" post - missed it was Berkely. I'd
:still put more than minimum pitch on it, but no snow load and minimal
:rain I'd just pull the old roof sheathing off, and cut 2X6 lumber in
:half, corner to corner to form a wedge (2 out of each peice) and
:spike that down on top of existing rafters (assuming they are sound),
:strap across the rafters and put down formed sheet steel or aluminum
:roofing. Should be able to buy it in lengths to fit with no joints and
:just nail it down.
:
:Then frame up the bad side wall and put the same metal vertical on the
:wall like on a pole barn. Available pre-coated in just about any color
:you would want, and will pretty well out live you.
This sounds pretty good. I think I understand what you are saying, but I
wonder what exactly you mean by "Strap across the rafters." When you say
that the formed sheet steel or aluminum won't need jointing, what do you
mean? The roof top is actually about 10 feet by 25 feet (measured
yesterday after posting). I kind of like your pragmatic approach,
especially the metal siding idea. It seems easier by far and I wouldn't
have to worry about protecting a lot of wood in the future from moisture
intrusion and rot, paint on wood issues, etc. I might dispense with the
windows on there. I'd have to replace the glass, make sure the one
window that opens (crank!), works OK, and I figure the upside of light
isn't worth the downside of any possible potential of a thief breaking
in to grab ladders or tools they see through the windows. I've lost a
few tools in my backyard over the years and don't tempt thieves if I can
help it.
Any links to the metal sheeting, would be nice, and thanks!
Dan
Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
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Posted by on October 8, 2009, 5:10 pm
wrote:
>On Wed, 07 Oct 2009 19:25:02 -0400, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>:wrote:
>:
>:>Dan Musicant wrote:
>:>> I'm in Berkeley, CA. The winters are mild, no snow, but there are
>:>> nights when there's ice on outside surfaces in the morning.
>:>> The garage roof (typical) is totally wasted. For the last several
>:>> years I've been keeping water out of the single car garage (manual
>:>> door, I don't keep a car in it, use it for storage) by putting on a
>:>> fresh tarp (19' x 29') yearly. Of course, this entails buying a ~$50
>:>> tarp every year and taking 1/2 a day to replace last year's tarp. I
>:>> tie down the corners and hang bricks every 8 feet or so from the
>:>> grommets, to secure the tarp from the ravages of the winds. One wall
>:>> of the garage needs a total rebuild, and I may try to do that myself,
>:>> maybe hire somebody, maybe work with them.
>:>> When I had the house reroofed with 50 year asphalt shingles (total
>:>> tearoff) around 3-4 years ago I didn't think to ask the roofing
>:>> company how much they'd charge to replace the roof on my garage. Even
>:>> then, I had it in mind that I could maybe install metal roofing on it
>:>> myself. I'd never think of doing a tar job myself, but metal I figure
>:>> "why not?"
>:>> The roof is flat (about 10' x 24') but I think there's a slight slope
>:>> to it, being 1/4 inch height for every 2 feet of run (I'm going to
>:>> measure the slope more carefully using a line level). On the low side
>:>> right now is a rusted out old gutter, which I figure I could replace
>:>> myself after installing the metal panels. The rafters are every 2
>:>> feet, 2x6's, and look to be in good shape. But the plywood (there's
>:>> some 1x6 boards too!) is basically trashed, so I'd have to replace
>:>> that stuff, or maybe not if I nail on nailing strips for metal
>:>> roofing, no big deal either way. I have basic tools like a circle
>:>> saw, saw horses, ladders, etc. and a concrete courtyard to work in.
>:>> 1. Is it feasible for me to do this myself, and
>:>Yes
>:>> 2. How much would the materials cost?
>:>If you are going to rebuild one wall, why not make use of the opportunity to
>:>remove the roof, rebuild the wall - I know not which - and at the same time
>:>put a greater fall to the roof.
>: Re: my "put on a pitched roof" post - missed it was Berkely. I'd
>:still put more than minimum pitch on it, but no snow load and minimal
>:rain I'd just pull the old roof sheathing off, and cut 2X6 lumber in
>:half, corner to corner to form a wedge (2 out of each peice) and
>:spike that down on top of existing rafters (assuming they are sound),
>:strap across the rafters and put down formed sheet steel or aluminum
>:roofing. Should be able to buy it in lengths to fit with no joints and
>:just nail it down.
>:
>:Then frame up the bad side wall and put the same metal vertical on the
>:wall like on a pole barn. Available pre-coated in just about any color
>:you would want, and will pretty well out live you.
>This sounds pretty good. I think I understand what you are saying, but I
>wonder what exactly you mean by "Strap across the rafters."
When putting on a tin roof, you run 1X4 or 1X6 boards over the rafters
at right angles to support the tin roof.
>When you say
>that the formed sheet steel or aluminum won't need jointing, what do you
>mean? The roof top is actually about 10 feet by 25 feet (measured
>yesterday after posting).
The sheets will be 10 feet, or 10'6", whatever you need, so no joints
on the 10 ft length.
>I kind of like your pragmatic approach,
>especially the metal siding idea. It seems easier by far and I wouldn't
>have to worry about protecting a lot of wood in the future from moisture
>intrusion and rot, paint on wood issues, etc. I might dispense with the
>windows on there. I'd have to replace the glass, make sure the one
>window that opens (crank!), works OK, and I figure the upside of light
>isn't worth the downside of any possible potential of a thief breaking
>in to grab ladders or tools they see through the windows. I've lost a
>few tools in my backyard over the years and don't tempt thieves if I can
>help it.
>Any links to the metal sheeting, would be nice, and thanks!
Just google "barn siding"
>Dan
>Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
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Posted by fftt on October 7, 2009, 1:10 pm
> I'm in Berkeley, CA. The winters are mild, no snow, but there are nights
> when there's ice on outside surfaces in the morning.
> The garage roof (typical) is totally wasted. For the last several years
> I've been keeping water out of the single car garage (manual door, I
> don't keep a car in it, use it for storage) by putting on a fresh tarp
> (19' x 29') yearly. Of course, this entails buying a ~$50 tarp every
> year and taking 1/2 a day to replace last year's tarp. I tie down the
> corners and hang bricks every 8 feet or so from the grommets, to secure
> the tarp from the ravages of the winds. One wall of the garage needs a
> total rebuild, and I may try to do that myself, maybe hire somebody,
> maybe work with them.
> When I had the house reroofed with 50 year asphalt shingles (total
> tearoff) around 3-4 years ago I didn't think to ask the roofing company
> how much they'd charge to replace the roof on my garage. Even then, I
> had it in mind that I could maybe install metal roofing on it myself.
> I'd never think of doing a tar job myself, but metal I figure "why not?"
> The roof is flat (about 10' x 24') but I think there's a slight slope to
> it, being 1/4 inch height for every 2 feet of run (I'm going to measure
> the slope more carefully using a line level). On the low side right now
> is a rusted out old gutter, which I figure I could replace myself after
> installing the metal panels. The rafters are every 2 feet, 2x6's, and
> look to be in good shape. But the plywood (there's some 1x6 boards too!)
> is basically trashed, so I'd have to replace that stuff, or maybe not if
> I nail on nailing strips for metal roofing, no big deal either way. I
> have basic tools like a circle saw, saw horses, ladders, etc. and a
> concrete courtyard to work in.
> 1. Is it feasible for me to do this myself, and
> 2. How much would the materials cost?
> Dan
> Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
Dan-
I have a patio cover 10 x 22' (solid sheathed) that I replaced a
couple years. It was originally (1930) sheathed with 6" T&G &
covered with wood shingles. The pitch was less than 1:12 and of
course never really "worked" but "hey, how much rain does SoCal
get?"
I increased the pitch to 1:12 (~4.7 / 5 deg) and used roll roofing,
no leaks.
At a pitch of 1/4" per 2 feet, your garage is even less than the code
minimum of 1/4" per foot for a "flat roof". That's why the plywood is
trashed.
I assume the garage (shed style) pitches across the 10' direction?
At a bare minimum you need 2.5" preferably more.
But, if framing is sound & solid and you use some decent thickness
plywood or osb you can go minimal with the pitch (ponding will not be
a problem).
I would like more like 1/2" or 1" per foot but that would require
some framing changes (maybe just custom sleepers) and more than a bit
of new timber, unless oyu can easily "raise the roof" .....well at
least on one edge. Plus depending on how the garage is finished on
the exterior; stucco, siding, ?? modifying the roof pitch will
complicate things
wrt cost;
material prices are down but if you're considering doing this project
yourself. To execute it successfully, you should have the minimal
skills needed to develop a design, do a material take off and get some
pricing.
Putting a new roof over plywood that is "basically trashed" (imo)
would be a waste of your time & the material.
Even with decent thickness plywood its only a couple $100's for
material.
Since oyu live in the PR of Berkeley is this going to be a permit job
or bootleg?
I'm surprised you haven't connected with Wayne...he lives in Berkeley
& has done a LOT on his house and could offer good advice (sorry
Wayne)
:)
cheers
Bob
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