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Rewiring a Hardwired Smoke Detector WITH THE POWER ON

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Rewiring a Hardwired Smoke Detector WITH THE POWER ON gobofraggle 04-01-2008
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Posted by Tony Hwang on April 1, 2008, 11:07 pm
Nate Nagel wrote:

> Mike Dobony wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 17:22:31 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Someone mentioned that I should use a special screwdriver. Where can
>>> I find something like this and what does it look like?
>>>
>>> So as long as I don't touch two of the same wires at the same time,
>>> I'll be OK? How can I not ground myself? If I'm on a ladder wearing
>>> rubber-soled sneakers, would that take care of it?
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks like you have to do this anyway so here are some advice.
>>>
>>> 1 Work with a buddy so he/she could call 911 and get help.
>>>
>>> 2 Use non conducting ladder. Ware electrical insulating gloves and
>>> shoes.
>>>
>>> 3 Don't need special screwdriver, wrap conducting part with
>>> electrical tape.
>>>
>>> 4 Work with one hand only, put the other hand in your back pocket.
>>>
>>>
>>> Remember it doesn't take much, as little as 6 milliamps, to go into
>>> ventricular fibrillation or cardiac arrest.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The key is to not let the current go across the heart. I just did some
>> wiring and forgot the outlet next to the switch was live and on another
>> circuit. I touched it and held for about a second before I realized what
>> was happening. Work with 120 enough and it barely fazes you. I don't
>> worry too much about 120 and occasionally work with live wires. You
>> bigger
>> concerns are compatibility with the existing system, likely interwired so
>> that when one goes off they all go off, and also with not destroying the
>> rest of the system. I seriously doubt it is connected to the lighting
>> system as the smoke alarms are supposed to be on their own breaker.
>
>
> I've heard it both ways; makes more sense to me to go ahead and put it
> on the lighting circuit, reason being that the homeowner will notice if
> the lights aren't working but if the breaker dedicated to a run of
> detectors trips he may not notice that and be unprotected.
>
> Of course, the local AHJ has the final word on what's cool and what isn't.
>
> nate
>
Remember without ground path urrent can't flow. Wear rubber sole shoes.
Only touch one wire at a time. Don'r make your body a current path.
I often work on live 120 or 220V lines. As long as this is kept in mind,
it is OK. More is needed? Wear a pair of thin rubber gloves. Or use a
tool with insulated grip.

Special 468x60
Posted by Mike Dobony on April 3, 2008, 9:43 am
On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 23:00:58 -0400, Nate Nagel wrote:

> Mike Dobony wrote:
>> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 17:22:31 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Someone mentioned that I should use a special screwdriver. Where can
>>>I find something like this and what does it look like?
>>>
>>>So as long as I don't touch two of the same wires at the same time,
>>>I'll be OK? How can I not ground myself? If I'm on a ladder wearing
>>>rubber-soled sneakers, would that take care of it?
>>>
>>>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>Looks like you have to do this anyway so here are some advice.
>>>
>>>1 Work with a buddy so he/she could call 911 and get help.
>>>
>>>2 Use non conducting ladder. Ware electrical insulating gloves and shoes.
>>>
>>>3 Don't need special screwdriver, wrap conducting part with electrical
>>>tape.
>>>
>>>4 Work with one hand only, put the other hand in your back pocket.
>>>
>>>
>>>Remember it doesn't take much, as little as 6 milliamps, to go into
>>>ventricular fibrillation or cardiac arrest.
>>
>>
>>
>> The key is to not let the current go across the heart. I just did some
>> wiring and forgot the outlet next to the switch was live and on another
>> circuit. I touched it and held for about a second before I realized what
>> was happening. Work with 120 enough and it barely fazes you. I don't
>> worry too much about 120 and occasionally work with live wires. You bigger
>> concerns are compatibility with the existing system, likely interwired so
>> that when one goes off they all go off, and also with not destroying the
>> rest of the system. I seriously doubt it is connected to the lighting
>> system as the smoke alarms are supposed to be on their own breaker.
>
> I've heard it both ways; makes more sense to me to go ahead and put it
> on the lighting circuit, reason being that the homeowner will notice if
> the lights aren't working but if the breaker dedicated to a run of
> detectors trips he may not notice that and be unprotected.
>
> Of course, the local AHJ has the final word on what's cool and what isn't.
>
> nate

That is assuming that they don't have a battery backup (never seen such an
animal) and that you are dealing with a homeowner, not a commercial
apartment complex, as in the OP's case.

Posted by on April 1, 2008, 11:09 pm
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008 17:22:31 -0700, Frank wrote:
> > Someone mentioned that I should use a special screwdriver. Where can
> > I find something like this and what does it look like?
>
> > So as long as I don't touch two of the same wires at the same time,
> > I'll be OK? How can I not ground myself? If I'm on a ladder wearing
> > rubber-soled sneakers, would that take care of it?
>
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Looks like you have to do this anyway so here are some advice.
>
> > 1 Work with a buddy so he/she could call 911 and get help.
>
> > 2 Use non conducting ladder. Ware electrical insulating gloves and shoes.
>
> > 3 Don't need special screwdriver, wrap conducting part with electrical
> > tape.
>
> > 4 Work with one hand only, put the other hand in your back pocket.
>
> > Remember it doesn't take much, as little as 6 milliamps, to go into
> > ventricular fibrillation or cardiac arrest.
>
> The key is to not let the current go across the heart. I just did some
> wiring and forgot the outlet next to the switch was live and on another
> circuit. I touched it and held for about a second before I realized what
> was happening. Work with 120 enough and it barely fazes you. I don't
> worry too much about 120 and occasionally work with live wires. You bigger
> concerns are compatibility with the existing system, likely interwired so
> that when one goes off they all go off, and also with not destroying the
> rest of the system. I seriously doubt it is connected to the lighting
> system as the smoke alarms are supposed to be on their own breaker.

If by "barely fazes you", you mean it's less likely to hurt you, well,
yer nuts.
You've just been lucky so far.

The OP probably shouldn't be doing this. The setup doesn't make
sense, and he doesn't know enough to be playing with live wires.

Posted by S. Barker on April 1, 2008, 8:00 pm
wooden ladder, rubber tennis shoes, AND only work one wire at a time and
don't touch the metal box it's mounted in.

s

Back when i was 13, i landed about 4 dozen duplex outlets and 8 or nine
switches all with the power on. Just have to take your time and handle one
wire at a time.


>I have a hardwired smoke detector that is old and outdated, that I'd
> like to switch with a new unit. The only problem is that I can't
> shut
> off the power to the alarm before I disconnect it and reconnect the
> new one. I'm going to have to do the take-down and installation
> while
> the power is LIVE.
>
> I live in a high-rise apartment building and the smoke detector is
> powered not by my unit's individual power, but off of a line brought
> in from a common hallway. There is no way to cut power to the smoke
> detector without cutting power to all the lights in the common
> hallway, which is impossible.
>
>
> So, how can I safely (or as safely as possible) change this detector
> with a new one? If I don't touch certain wires together, will I be
> OK? What are the chances I would get shocked?
>
>
> I know your first inclination will be to tell me to get the circuit
> turned off or call an electrician, but please (at least
> hypothetically) assume that neither of those options are possible.



Posted by S. Barker on April 1, 2008, 8:03 pm
Pat makes a good point. What if the breaker pops? What if you reach up
there and cut all the wires at once? (use an old cutter, it will be hard on
the edge of it) The breaker will be popped, and you can continue with your
changing out of the unit. Then at some point, the breaker will get reset by
someone eh????


s


>I have a hardwired smoke detector that is old and outdated, that I'd
> like to switch with a new unit. The only problem is that I can't
> shut
> off the power to the alarm before I disconnect it and reconnect the
> new one. I'm going to have to do the take-down and installation
> while
> the power is LIVE.
>
> I live in a high-rise apartment building and the smoke detector is
> powered not by my unit's individual power, but off of a line brought
> in from a common hallway. There is no way to cut power to the smoke
> detector without cutting power to all the lights in the common
> hallway, which is impossible.
>
>
> So, how can I safely (or as safely as possible) change this detector
> with a new one? If I don't touch certain wires together, will I be
> OK? What are the chances I would get shocked?
>
>
> I know your first inclination will be to tell me to get the circuit
> turned off or call an electrician, but please (at least
> hypothetically) assume that neither of those options are possible.



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