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Rewiring a Vent/Heat/Light unit in bathroom

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Rewiring a Vent/Heat/Light unit in bathroom rajmadanny 04-22-2008
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Posted by on April 23, 2008, 2:31 pm
>
> What *isn't* fine is the multiple cables. =A0think about it like this,
> you'll have a single neutral going to the ceiling unit, but multiple
> "hot" wires for different functions. =A0The current in the neutral wire
> will be the sum of all the currents in the "hot" wires, but in the
> opposite direction. =A0Code requires that the currents sum to zero in
> every single cable assembly. =A0otherwise you can get induced currents
> and resultant heating, which isn't good. =A0In practice this is probably
> insignificant, but "probably" is not a good thing to rely on, and it's
> against code.

But Nate, there's only one source feed to the unit anyway... so
wouldn't it still sum to zero?

Currently, the switch box is geting power from one junction box, and I
need to split that line (in the switch box) into the four feeds of the
four switches.

Thanks again for all you help,
Raj

Posted by N8N on April 23, 2008, 3:07 pm
On Apr 23, 2:31=A0pm, rajmada...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
> > What *isn't* fine is the multiple cables. =A0think about it like this,
> > you'll have a single neutral going to the ceiling unit, but multiple
> > "hot" wires for different functions. =A0The current in the neutral wire
> > will be the sum of all the currents in the "hot" wires, but in the
> > opposite direction. =A0Code requires that the currents sum to zero in
> > every single cable assembly. =A0otherwise you can get induced currents
> > and resultant heating, which isn't good. =A0In practice this is probably=

> > insignificant, but "probably" is not a good thing to rely on, and it's
> > against code.
>
> But Nate, there's only one source feed to the unit anyway... so
> wouldn't it still sum to zero?

yes, over *all* the cables. but if you have, say, only the light
turned on and its feed is in one cable and the neutral is in another,
the individual cables no longer sum to zero.

nate

>
> Currently, the switch box is geting power from one junction box, and I
> need to split that line (in the switch box) into the four feeds of the
> four switches.
>
> Thanks again for all you help,
> Raj


Posted by N8N on April 22, 2008, 2:43 pm
On Apr 22, 1:12=A0pm, rajmada...@gmail.com wrote:
> I'm in the process of replacing an existing Vent/Heat/Light unit in my
> bathroom. =A0The old wiring setup on this system seems odd to me.
>
> The previous installer is running three Romex wires to the unit.
> There is a two gang switch controlling (with one double switch).
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 One wire holds the Neutral and ground (other wire is clipp=
ed), coming
> from source junction box.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Another wire is holding two feeds from the switch (the gro=
und is
> clipped).
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The last wire is holding one feed from the switch (the oth=
er wires
> are clipped).
>
> Here is my question:
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Due to new location of the new unit, and existing cable si=
ze, I need
> to extend the two feed Romex cables coming from the switch. =A0Hence, I
> need a junction box to extend the lines. =A0The issue is, if I use a
> metal box then shouldn=92t those wires be grounded to the box?
> Normally, I would say yes ground the wires to the box. =A0However, the
> previous installer cut the grounds on those cables=85 so what value
> would there be in grounding them? =A0Another solution is to use a
> plastic junction box (which is legal in my town), to avoid the
> grounding issue.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
> Raj

The whole thing is incorrect, you should be running one cable from the
switch box to the unit. Since that is not possible given that you
have three different functions in the unit (unless someone makes a
12/4wg cable?) that is, vent, heat, and light, do any of these
functions have their own neutral? If that is the case then you should
run a separate cable for the light, say, as a 12/2 w/ground, and then
another cable 12/3 w/ground for the vent and heat. Neutrals should be
connected to each other at the switch box but NOT in the v/h/l unit.
this way the currents in each cable will sum to zero in the absence of
a ground fault. All grounds should be connected together and to the
box at all locations.

You will have to run new wire from the switch box to the new location
to be code compliant.

good luck

nate

Posted by DerbyDad03 on April 22, 2008, 3:35 pm
> On Apr 22, 1:12=A0pm, rajmada...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm in the process of replacing an existing Vent/Heat/Light unit in my
> > bathroom. =A0The old wiring setup on this system seems odd to me.
>
> > The previous installer is running three Romex wires to the unit.
> > There is a two gang switch controlling (with one double switch).
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 One wire holds the Neutral and ground (other wire is cli=
pped), coming
> > from source junction box.
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Another wire is holding two feeds from the switch (the g=
round is
> > clipped).
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The last wire is holding one feed from the switch (the o=
ther wires
> > are clipped).
>
> > Here is my question:
> > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Due to new location of the new unit, and existing cable =
size, I need
> > to extend the two feed Romex cables coming from the switch. =A0Hence, I
> > need a junction box to extend the lines. =A0The issue is, if I use a
> > metal box then shouldn=92t those wires be grounded to the box?
> > Normally, I would say yes ground the wires to the box. =A0However, the
> > previous installer cut the grounds on those cables=85 so what value
> > would there be in grounding them? =A0Another solution is to use a
> > plastic junction box (which is legal in my town), to avoid the
> > grounding issue.
>
> > Any thoughts?
>
> > Thanks,
> > Raj
>
> The whole thing is incorrect, you should be running one cable from the
> switch box to the unit. =A0Since that is not possible given that you
> have three different functions in the unit (unless someone makes a
> 12/4wg cable?) that is, vent, heat, and light, do any of these
> functions have their own neutral? =A0If that is the case then you should
> run a separate cable for the light, say, as a 12/2 w/ground, and then
> another cable 12/3 w/ground for the vent and heat. =A0Neutrals should be
> connected to each other at the switch box but NOT in the v/h/l unit.
> this way the currents in each cable will sum to zero in the absence of
> a ground fault. =A0All grounds should be connected together and to the
> box at all locations.
>
> You will have to run new wire from the switch box to the new location
> to be code compliant.
>
> good luck
>
> nate- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What N8N describes is essentially what I did, except that there are 2
additional lights in the bathroom.

There are 3 switches on the wall - one vertical, the other 2
horizontal.

The vertical switch is wired to control the light in the heat/vent
unit as well as the 2 other recessed lights via 14/2wg romex. (The
lights are on the load side of the GFCI outlet since one recessed
fixture is above the shower stall.)

The horizontal switches control the heat or vent via 14/3wg.

The top horizontal switch controls the vent, because the vent pulls
air up, the lower horizontal switch controls the heat because the heat
blows down.

Anal? Did I hear someone say anal?

Posted by N8N on April 22, 2008, 3:41 pm
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Apr 22, 1:12=A0pm, rajmada...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > > I'm in the process of replacing an existing Vent/Heat/Light unit in my=

> > > bathroom. =A0The old wiring setup on this system seems odd to me.
>
> > > The previous installer is running three Romex wires to the unit.
> > > There is a two gang switch controlling (with one double switch).
> > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 One wire holds the Neutral and ground (other wire is c=
lipped), coming
> > > from source junction box.
> > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Another wire is holding two feeds from the switch (the=
ground is
> > > clipped).
> > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The last wire is holding one feed from the switch (the=
other wires
> > > are clipped).
>
> > > Here is my question:
> > > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Due to new location of the new unit, and existing cabl=
e size, I need
> > > to extend the two feed Romex cables coming from the switch. =A0Hence, =
I
> > > need a junction box to extend the lines. =A0The issue is, if I use a
> > > metal box then shouldn=92t those wires be grounded to the box?
> > > Normally, I would say yes ground the wires to the box. =A0However, the=

> > > previous installer cut the grounds on those cables=85 so what value
> > > would there be in grounding them? =A0Another solution is to use a
> > > plastic junction box (which is legal in my town), to avoid the
> > > grounding issue.
>
> > > Any thoughts?
>
> > > Thanks,
> > > Raj
>
> > The whole thing is incorrect, you should be running one cable from the
> > switch box to the unit. =A0Since that is not possible given that you
> > have three different functions in the unit (unless someone makes a
> > 12/4wg cable?) that is, vent, heat, and light, do any of these
> > functions have their own neutral? =A0If that is the case then you should=

> > run a separate cable for the light, say, as a 12/2 w/ground, and then
> > another cable 12/3 w/ground for the vent and heat. =A0Neutrals should be=

> > connected to each other at the switch box but NOT in the v/h/l unit.
> > this way the currents in each cable will sum to zero in the absence of
> > a ground fault. =A0All grounds should be connected together and to the
> > box at all locations.
>
> > You will have to run new wire from the switch box to the new location
> > to be code compliant.
>
> > good luck
>
> > nate- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> What N8N describes is essentially what I did, except that there are 2
> additional lights in the bathroom.
>
> There are 3 switches on the wall - one vertical, the other 2
> horizontal.
>
> The vertical switch is wired to control the light in the heat/vent
> unit as well as the 2 other recessed lights via 14/2wg romex. (The
> lights are on the load side of the GFCI outlet since one recessed
> fixture is above the shower stall.)
>
> The horizontal switches control the heat or vent via 14/3wg.
>
> The top horizontal switch controls the vent, because the vent pulls
> air up, the lower horizontal switch controls the heat because the heat
> blows down.
>
> Anal? Did I hear someone say anal?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I mentioned 12/2 and 12/3 because I was assuming a dedicated 20A
circuit for the bathroom.

yes, I'm still planning exactly how I'm going to rewire mine.

nate

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