If you were Registered and logged in, you could reply and use other advanced thread options
|
Posted by Mike Granby on August 2, 2007, 10:15 am
We have some Romex wiring in the unfinished section of our basement
which runs at right-angles to the joists above. It is secured with
staples on the bottom of the joists, which I understand to be against
code for wire sizes less than 6-2 or 8-3. I have a few questions
relating to this situation, and would be grateful for some guidance...
1/ I understand that if I install running boards, the Romex can be
stapled to those, and everything will be code. Would it be sufficient
for this boards to go between the inside faces of the joists, perhaps
affixed with pocket hole screws in their ends, or must they actually
run below the bottom of the joists? Also, since code only demands
stapling to the running boards every 4 feet or so, how does this
provide any more support than stapling to each joist, given that the
joists are considerably closer than 4 feet?
2/ Would it also meet code to cover the wiring, perhaps with some sort
of partial plywood ceiling, mounted on but spaced away from the
joists? This would ensure that the wiring would be inaccessible, but
I'm not sure it would remove the requirement for no stapling.
3/ How long has the no-staples rule been around? All this wiring was
done by reputable licensed electricians, as far as I can tell, and so
was it installed prior to this rule being established? Or the rule
more honored in the breach than the observance?
4/ Why exactly is this rule in place? I've read a couple of theories,
namely that it is to prevent sagging of the cables, or that it is to
prevent people hanging things on them. The first seems strange, as
stapling to each and every joist provides more support than would be
provided, say, by stapling every 4 ft or so on a running board. And if
the second theory is correct, simply blocking off access would avoid
this danger.
As I say, any comments would be welcome.
|
 
| |
Posted by Toller on August 2, 2007, 11:39 am
>
> We have some Romex wiring in the unfinished section of our basement
> which runs at right-angles to the joists above. It is secured with
> staples on the bottom of the joists, which I understand to be against
> code for wire sizes less than 6-2 or 8-3. I have a few questions
> relating to this situation, and would be grateful for some guidance...
>
> 1/ I understand that if I install running boards, the Romex can be
> stapled to those, and everything will be code. Would it be sufficient
> for this boards to go between the inside faces of the joists, perhaps
> affixed with pocket hole screws in their ends, or must they actually
> run below the bottom of the joists? Also, since code only demands
> stapling to the running boards every 4 feet or so, how does this
> provide any more support than stapling to each joist, given that the
> joists are considerably closer than 4 feet?
>
> 2/ Would it also meet code to cover the wiring, perhaps with some sort
> of partial plywood ceiling, mounted on but spaced away from the
> joists? This would ensure that the wiring would be inaccessible, but
> I'm not sure it would remove the requirement for no stapling.
>
> 3/ How long has the no-staples rule been around? All this wiring was
> done by reputable licensed electricians, as far as I can tell, and so
> was it installed prior to this rule being established? Or the rule
> more honored in the breach than the observance?
>
> 4/ Why exactly is this rule in place? I've read a couple of theories,
> namely that it is to prevent sagging of the cables, or that it is to
> prevent people hanging things on them. The first seems strange, as
> stapling to each and every joist provides more support than would be
> provided, say, by stapling every 4 ft or so on a running board. And if
> the second theory is correct, simply blocking off access would avoid
> this danger.
>
> As I say, any comments would be welcome.
>
Why are you worrying about this? A lot of basements are wired this way, and
while it is wrong, it never seems to matter.
Any new wiring should be proper, but forget about old wiring.
|
|
Posted by Doug Miller on August 2, 2007, 11:43 am
>
>We have some Romex wiring in the unfinished section of our basement
>which runs at right-angles to the joists above. It is secured with
>staples on the bottom of the joists, which I understand to be against
>code for wire sizes less than 6-2 or 8-3.
You are correct.
> I have a few questions
>relating to this situation, and would be grateful for some guidance...
>
>1/ I understand that if I install running boards, the Romex can be
>stapled to those, and everything will be code. Would it be sufficient
>for this boards to go between the inside faces of the joists, perhaps
>affixed with pocket hole screws in their ends, or must they actually
>run below the bottom of the joists?
That, I think, would be a question for your local electrical inspector. The
NEC does not specify precisely how the running boards must be attached, but
the term *implies* that the Code intends that those boards "run" across
multiple joists.
>Also, since code only demands
>stapling to the running boards every 4 feet or so, how does this
>provide any more support than stapling to each joist, given that the
>joists are considerably closer than 4 feet?
It doesn't, but that doesn't matter, either. The prohibition against stapling
to the bottoms of the joists, without running boards, is intended to protect
the cable from physical damage, and isn't related to supporting it.
>
>2/ Would it also meet code to cover the wiring, perhaps with some sort
>of partial plywood ceiling, mounted on but spaced away from the
>joists? This would ensure that the wiring would be inaccessible, but
>I'm not sure it would remove the requirement for no stapling.
The NEC says you can't staple NM cable across joists in unfinished basements.
Whether the plywood ceiling is sufficient to cause that portion of the
basement to be considered "finished" is another question for your local
electrical inspector.
>3/ How long has the no-staples rule been around?
It's in the 1984 Code. Don't know if it's older than that or not.
>All this wiring was
>done by reputable licensed electricians, as far as I can tell, and so
>was it installed prior to this rule being established? Or the rule
>more honored in the breach than the observance?
That may depend on how long it's been since the wire was installed, but if it
was any time since 1984, it definitely did not meet Code at the time (and
probably didn't before then). The rule is very often ignored.
>
>4/ Why exactly is this rule in place? I've read a couple of theories,
>namely that it is to prevent sagging of the cables, or that it is to
>prevent people hanging things on them. The first seems strange, as
>stapling to each and every joist provides more support than would be
>provided, say, by stapling every 4 ft or so on a running board. And if
>the second theory is correct, simply blocking off access would avoid
>this danger.
Mostly to prevent hanging things on them.
>
>As I say, any comments would be welcome.
>
Talking to your local electrical inspector is probably your best course.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
|
|
Posted by on August 2, 2007, 2:49 pm
wrote:
>
>We have some Romex wiring in the unfinished section of our basement
>which runs at right-angles to the joists above. It is secured with
>staples on the bottom of the joists, which I understand to be against
>code for wire sizes less than 6-2 or 8-3. I have a few questions
>relating to this situation, and would be grateful for some guidance...
>
>1/ I understand that if I install running boards, the Romex can be
>stapled to those, and everything will be code. Would it be sufficient
>for this boards to go between the inside faces of the joists, perhaps
>affixed with pocket hole screws in their ends, or must they actually
>run below the bottom of the joists? Also, since code only demands
>stapling to the running boards every 4 feet or so, how does this
>provide any more support than stapling to each joist, given that the
>joists are considerably closer than 4 feet?
>
>2/ Would it also meet code to cover the wiring, perhaps with some sort
>of partial plywood ceiling, mounted on but spaced away from the
>joists? This would ensure that the wiring would be inaccessible, but
>I'm not sure it would remove the requirement for no stapling.
>
>3/ How long has the no-staples rule been around? All this wiring was
>done by reputable licensed electricians, as far as I can tell, and so
>was it installed prior to this rule being established? Or the rule
>more honored in the breach than the observance?
>
>4/ Why exactly is this rule in place? I've read a couple of theories,
>namely that it is to prevent sagging of the cables, or that it is to
>prevent people hanging things on them. The first seems strange, as
>stapling to each and every joist provides more support than would be
>provided, say, by stapling every 4 ft or so on a running board. And if
>the second theory is correct, simply blocking off access would avoid
>this danger.
>
>As I say, any comments would be welcome.
Get some cheap 2x4's. Cut a piece to fit between the joists for each
joist and nail or screw the pieces flat, above the wire. The cost
will be small for cheapy 2x4s and some fastners. You will then be up
to code, and these blocks will also make your floors a little stronger
too. This will be a bit time consuming, but the price is right, it
will meet code, and you dont have to mess with the wiring at all.
It dont matter what construction method is used as long as the wire
has solid wood behind it. This keeps children (and alcoholic adults)
from doing chin-ups on the wire, or using it to hang their
mother-in-law :)
|
|
Posted by Phisherman on August 2, 2007, 7:19 pm
wrote:
>
>We have some Romex wiring in the unfinished section of our basement
>which runs at right-angles to the joists above. It is secured with
>staples on the bottom of the joists, which I understand to be against
>code for wire sizes less than 6-2 or 8-3. I have a few questions
>relating to this situation, and would be grateful for some guidance...
>
>1/ I understand that if I install running boards, the Romex can be
>stapled to those, and everything will be code. Would it be sufficient
>for this boards to go between the inside faces of the joists, perhaps
>affixed with pocket hole screws in their ends, or must they actually
>run below the bottom of the joists? Also, since code only demands
>stapling to the running boards every 4 feet or so, how does this
>provide any more support than stapling to each joist, given that the
>joists are considerably closer than 4 feet?
You can place the "running boards" along side of the Romex. The idea
is to prevent someone from putting a wire hanger directly onto the
Romex. Staple as much as needed to prevent the wire from sagging.
>
>2/ Would it also meet code to cover the wiring, perhaps with some sort
>of partial plywood ceiling, mounted on but spaced away from the
>joists? This would ensure that the wiring would be inaccessible, but
>I'm not sure it would remove the requirement for no stapling.
You need to protect the wire against hanging something on it.
>
>3/ How long has the no-staples rule been around? All this wiring was
>done by reputable licensed electricians, as far as I can tell, and so
>was it installed prior to this rule being established? Or the rule
>more honored in the breach than the observance?
The rule is for safety. Sagging wire may or may not be a safety
issue. You probably should talk to a (local) electrician to know
which rules are strictly enforced and why. It is always a good idea
to follow all the NEC, although this will increase cost it is well
worth it.
>
>4/ Why exactly is this rule in place? I've read a couple of theories,
>namely that it is to prevent sagging of the cables, or that it is to
>prevent people hanging things on them. The first seems strange, as
>stapling to each and every joist provides more support than would be
>provided, say, by stapling every 4 ft or so on a running board. And if
>the second theory is correct, simply blocking off access would avoid
>this danger.
>
>As I say, any comments would be welcome.
|
Page 1 of 2 1 2 > last >>
| Similar Threads | Posted | | electrical question - Can romex be run though ceiling joists ? | March 21, 2006, 7:06 pm |
| Old BX or new Romex? What would you do? | February 25, 2008, 10:49 pm |
| Romex wiring | December 15, 2005, 8:54 pm |
| Saving romex | December 8, 2006, 8:56 pm |
| Splicing Romex | April 5, 2008, 5:00 pm |
| Must 10/2MC run through joists? | December 10, 2006, 2:53 pm |
| Romex Cables and Armouring | October 10, 2005, 5:01 pm |
| Re: Romex in SHORT run of conduit? | June 13, 2005, 10:18 am |
| romex inside greenfield | January 23, 2006, 3:03 pm |
| Exposed Romex in Garage... | August 15, 2006, 5:36 pm |
|
|
Yahoo! 
Google 
Windows Live 
del.icio.us 
digg 
Netscape 
XML Sitemap