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Roof Nail Pops Revisted - Do They Really Happen? DerbyDad03 08-18-2008
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Posted by DerbyDad03 on August 18, 2008, 12:25 pm


I just got a call from a roofer who looked at my roof and prepared an
estimate. Some of you may recall that I had what I called =93nail pops=94
pushing through the tabs of my 20 YO asphalt shingles.

All of the following statements are "according to him"

- There is no such thing as a "nail pop".
- Ring shank roofing nails cannot back themselves out due to
contraction-expansion cycles or any other reason.
- In my entire career, I have never seen a roofing nail back itself
out and I have done hundreds of roofs for all of the high-end builders
in the area. They wouldn't use me if I didn=92t know my stuff.
- The reason your house has nail heads popping through the shingles is
because these were "high nails" - nails that were never properly set
by the contractor who installed the roof. The compressor didn't seat
the nails completely and the roofer was too lazy to grab a hammer and
pound them down.
- I will hammer all of your high nails down and add a second layer
over the original
- I will guarantee, in writing, that the original nails will not back
themselves out and damage the new roof.

So what's the deal? Can roofing nails back themselves out as I have
heard from many sources or does this guy know the "real story"?

PexSupply Save 10 468x60
Posted by dpb on August 18, 2008, 12:49 pm


DerbyDad03 wrote:
> I just got a call from a roofer who looked at my roof and prepared an
> estimate. Some of you may recall that I had what I called “nail pops”
> pushing through the tabs of my 20 YO asphalt shingles.
>
> All of the following statements are "according to him"
>
> - There is no such thing as a "nail pop".
> - Ring shank roofing nails cannot back themselves out due to
> contraction-expansion cycles or any other reason.
> - In my entire career, I have never seen a roofing nail back itself
> out and I have done hundreds of roofs for all of the high-end builders
> in the area. They wouldn't use me if I didn’t know my stuff.
> - The reason your house has nail heads popping through the shingles is
> because these were "high nails" - nails that were never properly set
> by the contractor who installed the roof. The compressor didn't seat
> the nails completely and the roofer was too lazy to grab a hammer and
> pound them down.
> - I will hammer all of your high nails down and add a second layer
> over the original
> - I will guarantee, in writing, that the original nails will not back
> themselves out and damage the new roof.
>
> So what's the deal? Can roofing nails back themselves out as I have
> heard from many sources or does this guy know the "real story"?

They can (and do) and many roofing nails aren't ring-shank, anyway.

I can show you pictures of siding nails (ring shank as well as straight)
that over the years have worked themselves 1-2 _inches_ out of 80+ yr
old first growth yellow pine studs (that can't drive a nail into easily
at all owing to how hard they are)...

He's blowing smoke on most of the points. The only point on which I
would give him full credit is that it is possible there were high nails
left originally...

--

Posted by Chris Hill on August 18, 2008, 12:49 pm


On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:25:59 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03

>I just got a call from a roofer who looked at my roof and prepared an
>estimate. Some of you may recall that I had what I called “nail pops”
>pushing through the tabs of my 20 YO asphalt shingles.
>
>All of the following statements are "according to him"
>
>- There is no such thing as a "nail pop".
>- Ring shank roofing nails cannot back themselves out due to
>contraction-expansion cycles or any other reason.
>- In my entire career, I have never seen a roofing nail back itself
>out and I have done hundreds of roofs for all of the high-end builders
>in the area. They wouldn't use me if I didn’t know my stuff.
>- The reason your house has nail heads popping through the shingles is
>because these were "high nails" - nails that were never properly set
>by the contractor who installed the roof. The compressor didn't seat
>the nails completely and the roofer was too lazy to grab a hammer and
>pound them down.
>- I will hammer all of your high nails down and add a second layer
>over the original
>- I will guarantee, in writing, that the original nails will not back
>themselves out and damage the new roof.


I've never heard of roofing nails backing out either. Unless somebody
was inside bounding the ends upward, I can't think of a backing out
mechanism, especially if the shingles are flat.



Posted by Robert Allison on August 18, 2008, 3:26 pm


DerbyDad03 wrote:
> I just got a call from a roofer who looked at my roof and prepared an
> estimate. Some of you may recall that I had what I called “nail pops”
> pushing through the tabs of my 20 YO asphalt shingles.
>
> All of the following statements are "according to him"
>
> - There is no such thing as a "nail pop".
> - Ring shank roofing nails cannot back themselves out due to
> contraction-expansion cycles or any other reason.
> - In my entire career, I have never seen a roofing nail back itself
> out and I have done hundreds of roofs for all of the high-end builders
> in the area. They wouldn't use me if I didn’t know my stuff.
> - The reason your house has nail heads popping through the shingles is
> because these were "high nails" - nails that were never properly set
> by the contractor who installed the roof. The compressor didn't seat
> the nails completely and the roofer was too lazy to grab a hammer and
> pound them down.
> - I will hammer all of your high nails down and add a second layer
> over the original
> - I will guarantee, in writing, that the original nails will not back
> themselves out and damage the new roof.
>
> So what's the deal? Can roofing nails back themselves out as I have
> heard from many sources or does this guy know the "real story"?


They can and do back themselves out and become "nail pops". My engineer
explained the process like this; The wood will swell if there is enough
moisture in the air and will sometimes swell around a nail. When the
wood dries out, the nail is looser in the hole. The sun heats the
shingles which expand both laterally and in thickness. This causes the
shingle to "grab" the nail and the vertical expansion lifts it slightly.
Repeat this process numerous times and the nail can be lifted enough
to cause a problem.

Your roofer is the only roofer that I know that has never heard of nail
pops. I would suspect his other abilities.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown

Posted by dpb on August 18, 2008, 3:42 pm


Robert Allison wrote:
...
> They can and do back themselves out and become "nail pops". My engineer
> explained the process like this; The wood will swell if there is enough
> moisture in the air and will sometimes swell around a nail. When the
> wood dries out, the nail is looser in the hole. The sun heats the
> shingles which expand both laterally and in thickness. This causes the
> shingle to "grab" the nail and the vertical expansion lifts it slightly.
> Repeat this process numerous times and the nail can be lifted enough to
> cause a problem.
...
I don't think the shingle has much to do with the process,
actually--they're too soft.

The heat/cooling expansion/contraction cycle combined w/ some moisture,
particularly add in perhaps a void in plywood sheathing for roofing nail
in particular and most of all time and eventually a few will work their
way back out.

In very windy areas, such as here on the High Plains, the physical
vibration/working of the material can cause it at a much higher rate
than in other areas. As noted, it's very common here on siding or even
construction joints w/ age as well as roofing to see many nails
projecting by as much as an inch or more. In the 30+ years in VA and TN
where weather isn't nearly as severe (particularly wind) I never
experienced nearly the amount as is common here.

--

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