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Roof drainage issue - water does flow downhill! MiamiCuse 06-30-2006
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Posted by MiamiCuse on June 30, 2006, 4:58 pm
I have a unique roof drainage problem.

The house is a wrap around house with a center courtyard like this:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0153.JPG

On three sides are gabled tiled roof, therefore half the water will
flow into the direction of the courtyard, the top of the courtyard is
enclosed in a screen, therefore in between there is a gutter. It is not
a normal gutter but one that has a asphalt surface (like those of a
flat roof) and in some spots it feels "spongy" when I walked on it,
indicating moisture beneath it. Like this:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0164.JPG

Due to this reason, the gutter does not have a smooth grade and hence
when it rains it does not flow quickly to the drain. I think I need to
fix this gutter, but in talking to several gutter companies they told
me they do not service this type of gutters, they only install new
aluminum gutters. I asked them who I should call, they don't know. Now
is this a gutter problem or a roofing problem?

Now, on the front side the roof is not gabled. It is flat. There is a
section connecting the two sides and below it looks like this:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0152.JPG

Above however is asphalt roof like this:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0165.JPG

and it has an overhanging section extending out to cover the car when
parked:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0166.JPG

This flat section has no gutter. So it drains at the edges, worse, when
the other gutters at the bottom of the gabled roof are not draining
quick enough, the water backs up into this flat section, and pours down
the below like a bucket.

The courtyard is covered with bricks and have three drains on each
side, except the front area where the problem is. So water ponds up and
gets inside the sliding glass door and the floor gets wet...a big mess.

Now I am wondering if this is a grading problem of the courtyard, a
lack of gutter in the flat section of the roof, a grading problem in
the existing gutter, or a clogging problem of the courtyard drain
inlets.

What kind of professional do I need to look at all these issues all
together, and fix it? Is it a roofer or I need an engineer? Any other
advise would be appreciated.

Thanks and sorry for the long lengthy post.

MC


AppliancePartsPros.com, Inc.
Posted by Travis Jordan on June 30, 2006, 5:03 pm
MiamiCuse wrote:
> Due to this reason, the gutter does not have a smooth grade and hence
> when it rains it does not flow quickly to the drain. I think I need to
> fix this gutter, but in talking to several gutter companies they told
> me they do not service this type of gutters, they only install new
> aluminum gutters. I asked them who I should call, they don't know. Now
> is this a gutter problem or a roofing problem?

Given your home design you are going to get water in the courtyard, and
elsewhere when it rains. There isn't any gutter design that can avoid
that when you get more than just a light rain.



Posted by PipeDown on June 30, 2006, 5:37 pm

>I have a unique roof drainage problem.
>
> The house is a wrap around house with a center courtyard like this:
>
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0153.JPG
>
> On three sides are gabled tiled roof, therefore half the water will
> flow into the direction of the courtyard, the top of the courtyard is
> enclosed in a screen, therefore in between there is a gutter. It is not
> a normal gutter but one that has a asphalt surface (like those of a
> flat roof) and in some spots it feels "spongy" when I walked on it,
> indicating moisture beneath it. Like this:
>
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0164.JPG
>
> Due to this reason, the gutter does not have a smooth grade and hence
> when it rains it does not flow quickly to the drain. I think I need to
> fix this gutter, but in talking to several gutter companies they told
> me they do not service this type of gutters, they only install new
> aluminum gutters. I asked them who I should call, they don't know. Now
> is this a gutter problem or a roofing problem?
>
> Now, on the front side the roof is not gabled. It is flat. There is a
> section connecting the two sides and below it looks like this:
>
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0152.JPG
>
> Above however is asphalt roof like this:
>
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0165.JPG
>
> and it has an overhanging section extending out to cover the car when
> parked:
>
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0166.JPG
>
> This flat section has no gutter. So it drains at the edges, worse, when
> the other gutters at the bottom of the gabled roof are not draining
> quick enough, the water backs up into this flat section, and pours down
> the below like a bucket.
>
> The courtyard is covered with bricks and have three drains on each
> side, except the front area where the problem is. So water ponds up and
> gets inside the sliding glass door and the floor gets wet...a big mess.
>
> Now I am wondering if this is a grading problem of the courtyard, a
> lack of gutter in the flat section of the roof, a grading problem in
> the existing gutter, or a clogging problem of the courtyard drain
> inlets.
>
> What kind of professional do I need to look at all these issues all
> together, and fix it? Is it a roofer or I need an engineer? Any other
> advise would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks and sorry for the long lengthy post.
>
> MC
>
What's your budget?

Sounds like you need a home inspector first and since most of your problems
have to do with the roof design rather than a defect or something that can
be easily fixed, I think you may need to consult an architect next.

Call and interview your home inspector before hiring. Make sure he has seen
houses like yours and can form an intelligent opinion. Remember, you are
not the run of the mill home buyer, you have specific concerns to address.

Engineers design structural components to satisfy the architectural design
requirements. You may need one but first you need someone familiar with a
broad range of materials and construction practices and had an eye for the
aesthetic, that's the Architect. A roofer may do if you don't want to put
down a few $k for a detailed design first.



Posted by miamicuse on June 30, 2006, 10:00 pm

>
> >I have a unique roof drainage problem.
> >
> > The house is a wrap around house with a center courtyard like this:
> >
> > http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0153.JPG
> >
> > On three sides are gabled tiled roof, therefore half the water will
> > flow into the direction of the courtyard, the top of the courtyard is
> > enclosed in a screen, therefore in between there is a gutter. It is not
> > a normal gutter but one that has a asphalt surface (like those of a
> > flat roof) and in some spots it feels "spongy" when I walked on it,
> > indicating moisture beneath it. Like this:
> >
> > http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0164.JPG
> >
> > Due to this reason, the gutter does not have a smooth grade and hence
> > when it rains it does not flow quickly to the drain. I think I need to
> > fix this gutter, but in talking to several gutter companies they told
> > me they do not service this type of gutters, they only install new
> > aluminum gutters. I asked them who I should call, they don't know. Now
> > is this a gutter problem or a roofing problem?
> >
> > Now, on the front side the roof is not gabled. It is flat. There is a
> > section connecting the two sides and below it looks like this:
> >
> > http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0152.JPG
> >
> > Above however is asphalt roof like this:
> >
> > http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0165.JPG
> >
> > and it has an overhanging section extending out to cover the car when
> > parked:
> >
> > http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0166.JPG
> >
> > This flat section has no gutter. So it drains at the edges, worse, when
> > the other gutters at the bottom of the gabled roof are not draining
> > quick enough, the water backs up into this flat section, and pours down
> > the below like a bucket.
> >
> > The courtyard is covered with bricks and have three drains on each
> > side, except the front area where the problem is. So water ponds up and
> > gets inside the sliding glass door and the floor gets wet...a big mess.
> >
> > Now I am wondering if this is a grading problem of the courtyard, a
> > lack of gutter in the flat section of the roof, a grading problem in
> > the existing gutter, or a clogging problem of the courtyard drain
> > inlets.
> >
> > What kind of professional do I need to look at all these issues all
> > together, and fix it? Is it a roofer or I need an engineer? Any other
> > advise would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks and sorry for the long lengthy post.
> >
> > MC
> >
> What's your budget?
>
> Sounds like you need a home inspector first and since most of your
problems
> have to do with the roof design rather than a defect or something that can
> be easily fixed, I think you may need to consult an architect next.
>
> Call and interview your home inspector before hiring. Make sure he has
seen
> houses like yours and can form an intelligent opinion. Remember, you are
> not the run of the mill home buyer, you have specific concerns to address.
>
> Engineers design structural components to satisfy the architectural design
> requirements. You may need one but first you need someone familiar with a
> broad range of materials and construction practices and had an eye for the
> aesthetic, that's the Architect. A roofer may do if you don't want to put
> down a few $k for a detailed design first.
>
>

I am considering that. This is why I am now trying to find out as much as I
can (knowing whoever I hire will need the same information)...layout of the
underground pipes, whether the yard inlet drains and the sewer drains are
interconnected, and if so, how, I am measuring the roof area too, so I can
compute the storm runoff in a worse case scenerio and see if the two
existing grade and the two downspouts are sufficient. The problem is
because of the design the downspouts are on the inside of the courtyard and
the bottom disappear into the courtyard, don't know where it comes out, and
not sure if it connects to the other courtyard inlets.

Definitely an interesting mystery.

Thanks,

MC



Posted by Cliff Hartle on June 30, 2006, 8:55 pm
I would call a roofing company. You basically have a specialized flat roof
system.

They might want to use a rubber membrane type product, but they will most
likely have to rebuild under the "gutter"



>I have a unique roof drainage problem.
>
> The house is a wrap around house with a center courtyard like this:
>
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0153.JPG
>
> On three sides are gabled tiled roof, therefore half the water will
> flow into the direction of the courtyard, the top of the courtyard is
> enclosed in a screen, therefore in between there is a gutter. It is not
> a normal gutter but one that has a asphalt surface (like those of a
> flat roof) and in some spots it feels "spongy" when I walked on it,
> indicating moisture beneath it. Like this:
>
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0164.JPG
>
> Due to this reason, the gutter does not have a smooth grade and hence
> when it rains it does not flow quickly to the drain. I think I need to
> fix this gutter, but in talking to several gutter companies they told
> me they do not service this type of gutters, they only install new
> aluminum gutters. I asked them who I should call, they don't know. Now
> is this a gutter problem or a roofing problem?
>
> Now, on the front side the roof is not gabled. It is flat. There is a
> section connecting the two sides and below it looks like this:
>
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0152.JPG
>
> Above however is asphalt roof like this:
>
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0165.JPG
>
> and it has an overhanging section extending out to cover the car when
> parked:
>
> http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-10/1090906/IMG_0166.JPG
>
> This flat section has no gutter. So it drains at the edges, worse, when
> the other gutters at the bottom of the gabled roof are not draining
> quick enough, the water backs up into this flat section, and pours down
> the below like a bucket.
>
> The courtyard is covered with bricks and have three drains on each
> side, except the front area where the problem is. So water ponds up and
> gets inside the sliding glass door and the floor gets wet...a big mess.
>
> Now I am wondering if this is a grading problem of the courtyard, a
> lack of gutter in the flat section of the roof, a grading problem in
> the existing gutter, or a clogging problem of the courtyard drain
> inlets.
>
> What kind of professional do I need to look at all these issues all
> together, and fix it? Is it a roofer or I need an engineer? Any other
> advise would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks and sorry for the long lengthy post.
>
> MC
>



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