Rotary Hammer questions

Posted by David Nebenzahl on November 7, 2009, 2:50 am

On 11/6/2009 4:12 PM Existential Angst spake thus:

> It is said that stuff sold by HD is made *for* HD, and made more cheaply,
> and there is no way for the consumer to really know what's what. I won't
> bet the farm on this, but I've heard this from a number of sources.

Well, it doesn't take much to figure that out: I don't see a lot of (or
any for that matter) "Chicago" tools sold anywhere else, or even tools
that look like them. You know, those ugly orange portable power tools.

I've got a few Chicago tools (i.e., Harbor Freight) and am happy with
them, but I don't use them day in and day out.

--
Who needs a junta or a dictatorship when you have a Congress
blowing Wall Street, using the media as a condom?

- harvested from Usenet

Posted by Existential Angst on November 7, 2009, 3:16 am

> On 11/6/2009 4:12 PM Existential Angst spake thus:

>> It is said that stuff sold by HD is made *for* HD, and made more cheaply,
>> and there is no way for the consumer to really know what's what. I won't
>> bet the farm on this, but I've heard this from a number of sources.

> Well, it doesn't take much to figure that out:

Exactly how would a consumer "figure out" that Bosch et al make, say, a
Bulldog 11224 VSR *just for HD*, but which appears identical to "other"
Bosch 11224's?

HD is little more than a pervasive destructive mold on the fabric of
society. But a diabolical penicillin-resistant mold.

--
EA

I don't see a lot of (or

> any for that matter) "Chicago" tools sold anywhere else, or even tools
> that look like them. You know, those ugly orange portable power tools.
> I've got a few Chicago tools (i.e., Harbor Freight) and am happy with
> them, but I don't use them day in and day out.
> --
> Who needs a junta or a dictatorship when you have a Congress
> blowing Wall Street, using the media as a condom?
> - harvested from Usenet

Posted by David Nebenzahl on November 7, 2009, 3:24 am

On 11/7/2009 12:16 AM Existential Angst spake thus:

>> On 11/6/2009 4:12 PM Existential Angst spake thus:
>>

>>> It is said that stuff sold by HD is made *for* HD, and made more cheaply,
>>> and there is no way for the consumer to really know what's what. I won't
>>> bet the farm on this, but I've heard this from a number of sources.

>>
>> Well, it doesn't take much to figure that out:

>
> Exactly how would a consumer "figure out" that Bosch et al make, say, a
> Bulldog 11224 VSR *just for HD*, but which appears identical to "other"
> Bosch 11224's?

My bad; I mistook your "HD" for "HF".

> HD is little more than a pervasive destructive mold on the fabric of
> society. But a diabolical penicillin-resistant mold.

Yep. (But I still shop there. Help me ...)

--
Who needs a junta or a dictatorship when you have a Congress
blowing Wall Street, using the media as a condom?

- harvested from Usenet

Posted by MiamiCuse on November 7, 2009, 3:32 am

> When purchasing a rotary hammer, they come with either SDS, SDS-Plus
> or SDS-max. I understand SDS-max is a different slot system, but
> there seems to be no visible difference between SDS and SDS-plus. Is
> there?
> Also, what does the size mean in a rotary hammer? For example a <1"
> SDS-plus® BULLDOG Xtreme Rotary Hammer> what does the 1" mean? It is
> totally unrelated to the actual bit sizes, I mean you do not buy a bit
> that is rated for a 1" hammer or a 7/8" hammer, so what is the
> significance of the size of a hammer?
> =====================================================
> SDS max is a much bigger diameter, for bigger hammers and rotary hammers.
> I think SDS-Plus is alightly bigger than plain SDS.
> Hole size:
> I believe it's the size of the hole the motor is equipped to drill in
> concrete, long term.
> Not 100% sure, but that's what I surmise.
> Having said that, I have the Bulldog, and it is a very capable tool --
> so-called "D-handle"..
> But, unless you are doing a lot of hole drilling, you might be better off
> with the pistol grip equivalent, which is much more ergonometric for most
> drilling, and packs a helluva wallop, as far as hard concrete goes.
> Colbert may be right about HF stuff, but you have to be careful about the
> type of hammer. "Hammer drills" typically have 15-20,000 bps (bumps per
> second), and even quality ones (milwaukee, porter cable) will handle only
> so much hard concrete/stone.
> "Rotary Hammers" have many fewer bps, typically about 5,000, but each
> "bump" carries significantly more stone-breaking energy in each bump.
> What could take a hammer drill 5-10 minutes of supreme effort (and
> probably numerous wasted carbide bits) will take 5-30 seconds with a
> bulldog or equivalent. Night and day.
> HF stuff is OK, if the applications are not critical or demanding. I have
> bought a lot of HF stuff, and am quite happy with their winches and a
> couple of other things. Their close-quarter drill is OK, comes in handy.
> But you will most likely appreciate the Bulldog if you have real work to
> do.
> Oh, since I have both handy:
> The D-handle bulldog (11224 VSR) is 0-1100 rpm, 0-6150 bpm, 6.9 A.
> The pistol grip Bulldog is subnamed RotoHammer (11250 VSR), and is 0-1350
> rpm, 0-6,000 bpm, 6.0 A.
> Both come with a rotatable siide handle. The D-handle comes in a metal
> case.
> The pistol grip was hard to find, and I wound up getting a display model
> with no cord for $35 from HD. Don't know about a case for the pistol grip.
> And speaking of HD, a good hardware store will beat HD prices by 10%, and
> at worst will match HD.
> It is said that stuff sold by HD is made *for* HD, and made more cheaply,
> and there is no way for the consumer to really know what's what. I won't
> bet the farm on this, but I've heard this from a number of sources.
> Either Bosch or Hilti, on either their lit or placards, list the energy
> per bump in joules for each tool! For quite an accurate comparison.
> You'd proly be hardpressed to find these numbers for the higher bpm hammer
> drills, but I'll bet the numerical difference would be, uh, striking.
> --
> EA

Thanks for the info. I already have a pistol grip Bosch Bulldog rotary
hammer, it was a hand-me-down and I have always used the half dozen or so
masonry bits that was with it but recently I needed a chipping bit. I use
it once in a while. I have a hammer drill as well from Makita and used it
only for small masonry holes like drilling holes for Tapcons.

As for Harbor Freight I have purchased a few tools from there but each time
end up tossing them out and replacing them.

I guess the 1" rating got me confused. It just seemed a but arbitrary to
rate a rotary hammer this way.

MC

Posted by DD_BobK on November 6, 2009, 10:18 pm

> When purchasing a rotary hammer, they come with either SDS, SDS-Plus
> or SDS-max. =A0I understand SDS-max is a different slot system, but
> there seems to be no visible difference between SDS and SDS-plus. =A0Is
> there?
> Also, what does the size mean in a rotary hammer? =A0For example =A0a <1"
> SDS-plus=AE BULLDOG Xtreme Rotary Hammer> what does the 1" mean? =A0It is
> totally unrelated to the actual bit sizes, I mean you do not buy a bit
> that is rated for a 1" hammer or a 7/8" hammer, so what is the
> significance of the size of a hammer?
> Thanks,
> MC

MC-

I find the chuck style designations confusing. I have a small rotary
hammer (Milwaukee Falcon) and a larger (midsized) Hilti TE-54

Originally the TE-54 used TE-Y type bits (& years ago were referred to
as Hilti SDS) but this are now also referred to as SDS Max

The Falcon (when I got it was referred to as SDS Plus or SDS+)

all of which I still find confusing........whenever I go to buy a bit
for a particular tool, I either bring matching bit to compare or, if
buying online, I double / triple check to make sure the chuck style is
correct.

I believe you are correct, in that now, SDS & SDS Plus (SDS+) are the
same and used on smaller capacity hammers.
Larger hammers use SDS Max (the old / current Hilti TE-Y chuck system)

I routinely use my Falcon (nominal 3/4" hammer drill) to drill 5/32"
thru 5/8" holes in concrete but I've also used it to drill 7/8" & 1"
holes as well. The larger / longer bits will tax the capacity of the
tool.

If I need to drill LARGE holes, deep holes or lots of smaller (like
1/2 to 3/4"), I'd use the TE-54. But for a small number of holes or
smaller diameter I like the easy handling of the Falcon.

With the TE-54 I've drilled holes as large as 1 5/8" x 12" in concrete
but these were clearly beyond the normal capacity of the TE-54 and I
should have used a Hilti water cooled diamond coring system, but I
only need to drill 5 holes.

You CAN use larger bits in a small capacity tool if you dont over do
it.

I've used Milwaukee, Hilti & Bosch rotary hammers and Hilti's have
been the best; long trouble free service and fastest drillling. Bosch
have been the worst. :(

cheers
Bob

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Rotary Hammer questions - Page 2