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Ruud AC Unit Not Cooling cybercat 05-06-2008
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Posted by cshenk on May 6, 2008, 10:18 pm
"S. Barker" wrote

> home units have changed refrigerants, (not coolant) but the old r-22 is
> still used and still available. Beware of misinformation.

My bad if i used the wrong term. Can you explain the difference between
refigerant and coolant? All I know is in *my area* the old stuff is barely
obtainable. My system though is far older than hers.

I am checking prices as sometime in the not too distant future, we will need
to replace the AC portion. It's actually older than such units were rated
for at the time.



Posted by S. Barker on May 6, 2008, 11:33 pm
refrigerant is used in a/c systems. and is called things like r-12, r-22,
r-134a, r-410 ect. sometimes wrongly called freon.

coolant is used in internal combustion engines to cool them. called things
like antifreeze, ethelyene glycol, etc.

steve


> "S. Barker" wrote
>
>> home units have changed refrigerants, (not coolant) but the old r-22 is
>> still used and still available. Beware of misinformation.
>
> My bad if i used the wrong term. Can you explain the difference between
> refigerant and coolant? All I know is in *my area* the old stuff is
> barely obtainable. My system though is far older than hers.
>
> I am checking prices as sometime in the not too distant future, we will
> need to replace the AC portion. It's actually older than such units were
> rated for at the time.
>



Posted by Steve B. on May 7, 2008, 12:37 am
.
>
>My bad if i used the wrong term. Can you explain the difference between
>refigerant and coolant? All I know is in *my area* the old stuff is barely
>obtainable. My system though is far older than hers.
>

You must be outside the United States. R-22 can still be manufactured
for new systems for two more years and the folks that make R-22 can
continue to do so until 2020 to service older systems. I doubt R-22
will be hard to get anytime in the next 20 to 30 years though it may
get pricey after 2020.

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/title6/phaseout/22phaseout.html
Phaseout Schedule for HCFCs Including R-22
Under the terms of the Montreal Protocol, the U.S. agreed to meet
certain obligations by specific dates that will affect the residential
heat pump and air-conditioning industry:

January 1, 2004:
In accordance with the terms of the Montreal Protocol, the amount of
all HCFCs that can be produced nationwide must be reduced by 35% by
2004. In order to achieve this goal, the U.S. is ceasing production of
HCFC-141b, the most ozone-damaging of this class of chemicals, on
January 1, 2003. This production ban will greatly reduce nationwide
use of HCFCs as a group, making it likely that the 2004 deadline will
have a minimal effect on R-22 supplies.
January 1, 2010:
After 2010, chemical manufacturers may still produce R-22 to service
existing equipment, but not for use in new equipment. As a result,
heating, ventilation and air-conditioning (HVAC) system manufacturers
will only be able to use pre-existing supplies of R-22 to produce new
air conditioners and heat pumps. These existing supplies would include
R-22 recovered from existing equipment and recycled.
January 1, 2020:
Use of existing refrigerant, including refrigerant that has been
recovered and recycled, will be allowed beyond 2020 to service
existing systems, but chemical manufacturers will no longer be able to
produce R-22 to service existing air conditioners and heat pumps.
For more information about this phaseout, see fact sheets about the
HCFC Phaseout Schedule and Frequently Asked Questions on the HCFC
Phaseout.

Posted by cshenk on May 6, 2008, 10:13 pm
"cybercat" wrote

>> before they changed the type or not. If it predates the new stuff, you
>> will want to check prices for replacement as you may not be able to get
>> the old style much longer at all.

> Thanks! I will do that. I had no idea about them changing types. I guess
> you can't add coolant to the new type?

Not exactly. It's that you can't add the new coolant to the old type
machines. Freon and some shift. I am sorry that i can't recall the dates
of the shift but if they tell you to replace the unit as it has older
coolant type, I'd start checking prices right away.

Here's the upside of that *if* it comes to that. Check energystar ratings.
If you get a unit that is so rated, your electrical bills will be less in
summer and you can file it as an energy improvement on the following year's
taxes. You dont get a total write off for the cost on adding such an
'upgrade' but a portion of it comes back so you may get as much as 20% of
the cost back? Will depend on your circumstances and wages etc.

Now, sometimes they can adapt a unit built for the older coolant, but it
seldom works as well as intended or as well as one built for the new stuff.
It also can (sometimes) cost as much as 50% of the price of a new unit to
adapt an old one. When you think about the lifecycle of an AC system and
your's being 12 years (12 right?) this may not be a very good deal
financially.

Now lets take best and worst case at same time. Older coolant but you guy
can supply it. If you do not have a true leak, go for it as you'll be good
a few more years. Check prices of new units but wait as they are getting
more and more efficient as we typo to one another.



Posted by cybercat on May 7, 2008, 12:21 am

> "cybercat" wrote
>
>>> before they changed the type or not. If it predates the new stuff, you
>>> will want to check prices for replacement as you may not be able to get
>>> the old style much longer at all.
>
>> Thanks! I will do that. I had no idea about them changing types. I guess
>> you can't add coolant to the new type?
>
> Not exactly. It's that you can't add the new coolant to the old type
> machines. Freon and some shift.

Ahh, I see.


>I am sorry that i can't recall the dates of the shift but if they tell you
>to replace the unit as it has older coolant type, I'd start checking prices
>right away.

I will do that.


>
> Here's the upside of that *if* it comes to that. Check energystar
> ratings. If you get a unit that is so rated, your electrical bills will be
> less in summer and you can file it as an energy improvement on the
> following year's taxes. You dont get a total write off for the cost on
> adding such an 'upgrade' but a portion of it comes back so you may get as
> much as 20% of the cost back? Will depend on your circumstances and wages
> etc.

We want a new unit, there are just other things I would like to do with the
house fund at the moment.


>
> Now lets take best and worst case at same time. Older coolant but you guy
> can supply it. If you do not have a true leak, go for it as you'll be
> good a few more years. Check prices of new units but wait as they are
> getting more and more efficient as we typo to one another.

Yes, this is what we want to do. Just do what it takes to get another year
or
two out of this one, give us time to do the research and such.

Thanks so much. I will report on the outcome after the guys come tomorrow.



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