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Posted by Jules on November 2, 2009, 6:06 pm
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:30:20 -0600, Jules wrote:
> It'd be interesting to get a few more actual facts behind the story,
> anyway.
On the back of that, the whole article seems to be here:
http://www.komonews.com/news/consumer/68408867.html
... there's a little bit more beyond what the OP quoted.
Most of that Consumer Reports place mentioned is a pay site, but I did
spot some useful info on the forums (which are freely accessible):
http://forums.consumerreports.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=cr-washers&tid=12
(watch for URL wrapping across lines)
I've never heard of the leaving the door open thing before, but there does
look to be lots of other relevant advice there - and it all starts to
"smell" like a user problem :-) (and down to unfamiliarity with the
tech rather than inherent problems with the machines themselves).
I've no vested interest in top-loaders - IME they do cost less to run,
run quieter and are kinder to clothes than top-loaders, but they also
can't be opened mid-cycle, spares cost more, and failures of door seals
can get messy :-) (power cuts are a PITA too because clothes have to just
sit there until the power comes back on). Apples and oranges...
Front-loaders also seem to be *extremely* over-priced in the US (30%
or more) from what I've seen, so I suspect folk are being screwed by the
manufacturers right now and will be for a few years to come until they
lower prices in line with overseas markets.
cheers
Jules
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Posted by on November 2, 2009, 6:19 pm
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:06:23 -0600, Jules
>On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:30:20 -0600, Jules wrote:
>> It'd be interesting to get a few more actual facts behind the story,
>> anyway.
>On the back of that, the whole article seems to be here:
> http://www.komonews.com/news/consumer/68408867.html
>... there's a little bit more beyond what the OP quoted.
>Most of that Consumer Reports place mentioned is a pay site, but I did
>spot some useful info on the forums (which are freely accessible):
>http://forums.consumerreports.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=cr-washers&tid=12
>(watch for URL wrapping across lines)
>I've never heard of the leaving the door open thing before, but there does
>look to be lots of other relevant advice there - and it all starts to
>"smell" like a user problem :-) (and down to unfamiliarity with the
>tech rather than inherent problems with the machines themselves).
>I've no vested interest in top-loaders - IME they do cost less to run,
>run quieter and are kinder to clothes than top-loaders, but they also
>can't be opened mid-cycle, spares cost more, and failures of door seals
>can get messy :-) (power cuts are a PITA too because clothes have to just
>sit there until the power comes back on). Apples and oranges...
>Front-loaders also seem to be *extremely* over-priced in the US (30%
>or more) from what I've seen, so I suspect folk are being screwed by the
>manufacturers right now and will be for a few years to come until they
>lower prices in line with overseas markets.
>cheers
>Jules
My vote is for the Fisher & Paykel top loader. It has all the
advantages of the front loader without the price. It uses half the
normal amount of soap, and doesn't require "special" soap like many
front loaders. It uses a lot less water than a normal top loader, and
has the super fast spin cycle like a front loader so the clothes are
almost dry when you take them out. That saves even more money, because
the dryer doesn't have to run nearly as long to dry them. All of the
functions except draining are accomplished by one computer controlled
direct drive motor that needs no gears, belts or transmissions.
My Fisher & Paykel finally needed repair after about 10 years of daily
use. The separate pump for the drain function developed a slight leak
that soaked and corroded its motor. Got a new motor at the appliance
store for $79. You don't even need any tools to replace it. Tip the
washer on it's front, twist and pull the old pump out. Just push in
and twist to install the new pump. 10 minutes, if that, and I was back
in business.
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Posted by Jules on November 3, 2009, 8:53 am
On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:19:36 -0500, salty wrote:
> My vote is for the Fisher & Paykel top loader.
[snippage]
Thanks for that - I'll definitely keep that in mind (I remember Fisher &
Paykel being big in NZ and highly rated, too).
I'm not really sold on any particular technology (we're on a private well
so it doesn't really matter so much how much the machine uses and spits
out again) but I think it'll be a few years before our existing top-loader
becomes uneconomical to maintain....
> It has all the
> advantages of the front loader without the price.
I think the F-L prices will come down once people realise that they're
being screwed.
> the dryer doesn't have to run nearly as long to dry them.
It's not a combined washer/drier* is it? I must say I don't like those
much - I've known a few folk who've had them and they seem much more prone
to failure than individual units.
* although I don't remember ever seeing a top-loading drier, so presumably
not.
cheers
Jules
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Posted by on November 3, 2009, 9:17 am
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 07:53:47 -0600, Jules
>On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:19:36 -0500, salty wrote:
>> My vote is for the Fisher & Paykel top loader.
>[snippage]
>Thanks for that - I'll definitely keep that in mind (I remember Fisher &
>Paykel being big in NZ and highly rated, too).
>I'm not really sold on any particular technology (we're on a private well
>so it doesn't really matter so much how much the machine uses and spits
>out again) but I think it'll be a few years before our existing top-loader
>becomes uneconomical to maintain....
>> It has all the
>> advantages of the front loader without the price.
>I think the F-L prices will come down once people realise that they're
>being screwed.
FL machines are not new. My aunt had one in the 1950's. They will
always have premium prices. I just feel that the F&P at half the price
of a typical FL is as good or better.
>> the dryer doesn't have to run nearly as long to dry them.
>It's not a combined washer/drier* is it? I must say I don't like those
>much - I've known a few folk who've had them and they seem much more prone
>to failure than individual units.
No, it is not a combo unit. At the end of the cycles, the last one is
a spin cycle at 1100 RPM that leaves the clothes barely damp.
>* although I don't remember ever seeing a top-loading drier, so presumably
>not.
Fisher & Paykel has a top loading Dryer, too! Makes transferring
clothes from the washer a lot easier.
>cheers
>Jules
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Posted by Jules on November 3, 2009, 11:09 am
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 09:17:15 -0500, salty wrote:
> FL machines are not new. My aunt had one in the 1950's. They will
> always have premium prices. I just feel that the F&P at half the price
> of a typical FL is as good or better.
Yeah, top-loaders will always be cheaper - but I've seen a lot of
front-loaders for sale at the $800-$1000 mark even though they run to the
equivalent of $400-$600 in other countries. I don't know if US
manufacturers are trying to do the right thing and build US ones locally
and hence there are high start-up costs, or if they're building 'em all
in China nad puttting a high mark-up on the tag because people are
prepared to pay it.
Either way I think they'll drop a few hundred bucks in the next few years
as they become more accepted here.
>>* although I don't remember ever seeing a top-loading drier, so
>>presumably not.
> Fisher & Paykel has a top loading Dryer, too! Makes transferring clothes
> from the washer a lot easier.
I can imagine.
That's one braindead thing I've found about most front-loaders; they
don't let you choose* which side you want the door hinges on - and the
drier and washer hinges are usually on the same side for a given set by
the same manufacturer, so there's always a door getting in the way when
you just want to transfer clothes across.
* either at ordering time, or just by drilling the necessary mount
points for either so that a repairman or DIYer could order any
necessary release cables etc. and do the job "in the field".
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> anyway.