Score one for top loading washers

Posted by Existential Angst on November 3, 2009, 11:10 am

> On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:30:20 -0600, Jules wrote:

>> It'd be interesting to get a few more actual facts behind the story,
>> anyway.

> On the back of that, the whole article seems to be here:
> http://www.komonews.com/news/consumer/68408867.html
> ... there's a little bit more beyond what the OP quoted.
> Most of that Consumer Reports place mentioned is a pay site, but I did
> spot some useful info on the forums (which are freely accessible):
>

http://forums.consumerreports.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=cr-washers&tid=12

> (watch for URL wrapping across lines)
> I've never heard of the leaving the door open thing before, but there does
> look to be lots of other relevant advice there - and it all starts to
> "smell" like a user problem :-) (and down to unfamiliarity with the
> tech rather than inherent problems with the machines themselves).
> I've no vested interest in top-loaders - IME they do cost less to run,
> run quieter and are kinder to clothes than top-loaders, but they also
> can't be opened mid-cycle, spares cost more, and failures of door seals
> can get messy :-) (power cuts are a PITA too because clothes have to just
> sit there until the power comes back on). Apples and oranges...
> Front-loaders also seem to be *extremely* over-priced in the US (30%
> or more) from what I've seen, so I suspect folk are being screwed by the
> manufacturers right now and will be for a few years to come until they
> lower prices in line with overseas markets.

Consumers Reports reviewed front loaders a while back. iirc, Frigidaire was
top rated, at about half the price of kenmore, LG, etc.

Front loaders, compared to traditional top loaders, are extraordinary
money/resource savers, from every point of view -- seals notwithstanding.
I overpaid for a Miele, and thought it was defective, it uses so little
water -- I'd be surprised if it used 5 gal. A top-loader can use 80 gal,
and flood out septic systems.
I didn't find out about CR's Frigidaire review until after I bought the
Miele.... of course.

A major part of the FL economy, as someone alluded to, is the spin cycle,
which leaves the clothes near-dry, drastically reducing the drying time --
1/2 to 1/4 -- which is the major consumption of raw energy in the
laundering process.
--
EA

> cheers
> Jules
>

Posted by on November 3, 2009, 11:28 am

On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 11:10:42 -0500, "Existential Angst"

>> On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:30:20 -0600, Jules wrote:

>>> It'd be interesting to get a few more actual facts behind the story,
>>> anyway.

>> On the back of that, the whole article seems to be here:
>> http://www.komonews.com/news/consumer/68408867.html
>> ... there's a little bit more beyond what the OP quoted.
>> Most of that Consumer Reports place mentioned is a pay site, but I did
>> spot some useful info on the forums (which are freely accessible):
>>

http://forums.consumerreports.org/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=cr-washers&tid=12

>> (watch for URL wrapping across lines)
>> I've never heard of the leaving the door open thing before, but there does
>> look to be lots of other relevant advice there - and it all starts to
>> "smell" like a user problem :-) (and down to unfamiliarity with the
>> tech rather than inherent problems with the machines themselves).
>> I've no vested interest in top-loaders - IME they do cost less to run,
>> run quieter and are kinder to clothes than top-loaders, but they also
>> can't be opened mid-cycle, spares cost more, and failures of door seals
>> can get messy :-) (power cuts are a PITA too because clothes have to just
>> sit there until the power comes back on). Apples and oranges...
>> Front-loaders also seem to be *extremely* over-priced in the US (30%
>> or more) from what I've seen, so I suspect folk are being screwed by the
>> manufacturers right now and will be for a few years to come until they
>> lower prices in line with overseas markets.

>Consumers Reports reviewed front loaders a while back. iirc, Frigidaire was
>top rated, at about half the price of kenmore, LG, etc.
>Front loaders, compared to traditional top loaders, are extraordinary
>money/resource savers, from every point of view -- seals notwithstanding.
>I overpaid for a Miele, and thought it was defective, it uses so little
>water -- I'd be surprised if it used 5 gal. A top-loader can use 80 gal,
>and flood out septic systems.
>I didn't find out about CR's Frigidaire review until after I bought the
>Miele.... of course.
>A major part of the FL economy, as someone alluded to, is the spin cycle,
>which leaves the clothes near-dry, drastically reducing the drying time --
>1/2 to 1/4 -- which is the major consumption of raw energy in the
>laundering process.

Sorry to keep repeating this, but the Fisher & Paykel top loader, just
like a FL, uses far less water than other top loaders, has far fewer
moving parts, uses half as much soap, doesn't require special soap
like a FL, Has the high speed spin cycle just like a FL and costs HALF
as much as a typical FL. I paid just over $600 for mine.

The Fisher & Paykel is also very "smart" about how much water to use
and even how to use exactly as little hot water as possible without
hindering the washing quality.

Typical top loaders use between 30 and 40 gallons of water per wash,
not 80, and your Miele, uses about 15, not 5.

Posted by Ed Pawlowski on November 2, 2009, 10:16 pm

wrote:

> > "It's a problem for all front-loaders," Wiseman said.

> No, it's most definitely not.

Maybe he was using a mild hyperbole. For example, maybe he meant to
indicate that it's a common problem for all models in general, not
that it's currently affecting 100% of units.

******************************************

Maybe he should back up his statement with facts. Some? All? A few? Brands?
Conditions? Reasons?

Posted by Jim Elbrecht on November 2, 2009, 5:08 pm

>On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:14:30 -0800, mike wrote:

-snip-

>> "It's a problem for all front-loaders," Wiseman said.

>No, it's most definitely not.

Yeah, Wiseman isn't so wise on that count. I *hate* our front
loader-- but I can't say it literally stinks.

I also don't think it gets clothes any cleaner than our 25 yr old
Whirlpool top loader did. [and more importantly, that's one of the few
things my wife and I agree on]

It *might* save water. But it also won't take nearly a large a load
as our old machine- so we do more loads.

Jim

Posted by h on November 2, 2009, 6:00 pm

>>On Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:14:30 -0800, mike wrote:

> -snip-

>>> "It's a problem for all front-loaders," Wiseman said.

>>No, it's most definitely not.

> Yeah, Wiseman isn't so wise on that count. I *hate* our front
> loader-- but I can't say it literally stinks.
> I also don't think it gets clothes any cleaner than our 25 yr old
> Whirlpool top loader did. [and more importantly, that's one of the few
> things my wife and I agree on]
> It *might* save water. But it also won't take nearly a large a load
> as our old machine- so we do more loads.

And, you can't dye fabric in a front loader since you must agitate the dye
in hot water in the machine before adding the fabric. You can't open a front
loader when there's water in it. This might not be a problem for most
people, but I dye fabric at least once a week for my business.

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Score one for top loading washers - Page 4