Sewage gases: check valve?

Posted by RicodJour on October 21, 2009, 9:57 am

On Oct 21, 9:46=A0am, trad...@optonline.net wrote:

> Yes, since the typical washer can pump probably as high as the
> ceiling, it would seem a p-trap should be able to go somewhere.

I'm sure you're right. Washers are one of the easiest things to
squeeze a trap in because of the capabilities of the built in pump.

R

Posted by JIMMIE on October 21, 2009, 10:47 am

On Oct 21, 9:46=A0am, trad...@optonline.net wrote:

> > On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 05:27:19 -0700 (PDT), trad...@optonline.net wrote:

> > >> >Hi,
> > >> >My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or what=

ever

> > >> >its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to=

have

> > >> > =A0 a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do=

it).

> > >> >So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump p=

ump.

> > >> >Will it solve my problem?
> > >> No - if it is a check valve, it will catch lint, clog & never shut
> > >> properly after about a week of use.
> > >> This is what you want-http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6833156
> > >> HD carries them as a "cheater vent" =A0 =A0- =A0 Put it on the top o=

f the

> > >> pipe that your washer drains into- and sani-T the drain hose. [there
> > >> should be directions showing installations in the package]
> > >> Jim
> > >That solves the problem of not being able to have a vent pipe on the
> > >drain where it is located and works with a P trap. =A0It does not
> > >eliminate the need for a P trap, which is what the stated problem is.

> > I am not a plumber-- and I know some codes don't allow them. =A0 But
> > they work fine as a vent, and don't allow sewer gas into the house.
> > [the latter being the purpose of the p-trap, right?]

> They work as a vent in COMBINATION with a p-trap. =A0 In an installation
> with a p-trap and conventional vent pipe, the water in the p-trap
> blocks the gases from coming into the house through the drain and the
> vent pipe gives the gases an alternate low pressure exit out the
> roof. =A0 =A0The device you recommended, commonly called an air admittanc=

> valve, is used where you can't provide a nearby vent pipe, like a
> kitchen island sink. =A0 It allows air in, to prevent a vacuum from
> forming and allowing water to flow normally. =A0 It will not allow waste
> gases to come out through the valve in the reverse direction. =A0 But
> the gases will still flow right out of the drain if there is no p-trap
> filled with water. =A0 =A0Also, the air admittance valve depends on there
> being some other actual vent pipe in the system.

> > >He says there is not sufficient elevation for a P trap, for which I
> > >think we need more explanation..

> > I agree here- a picture of the setup would probably elicit a 1/2 dozen
> > ways to attack the problem.

> Yes, since the typical washer can pump probably as high as the
> ceiling, it would seem a p-trap should be able to go somewhere.

> > Jim- Hide quoted text -
> > - Show quoted text -

I have a friend whose main sewer line goes across one wall of his
basement at about the same height as his washing machine. The washing
machine connects to the stack about 3 ft above that. He eventually
moved the machines upstairs when his kids moved out.

Jimmie

Posted by on October 21, 2009, 4:35 pm

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 06:46:01 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:

>> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 05:27:19 -0700 (PDT), trad...@optonline.net wrote:

>> >> >Hi,
>> >> >My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
>> >> >its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
>> >> > a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).
>> >> >So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
>> >> >Will it solve my problem?
>> >> No - if it is a check valve, it will catch lint, clog & never shut
>> >> properly after about a week of use.
>> >> This is what you want-http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6833156
>> >> HD carries them as a "cheater vent" - Put it on the top of the
>> >> pipe that your washer drains into- and sani-T the drain hose. [there
>> >> should be directions showing installations in the package]
>> >> Jim
>> >That solves the problem of not being able to have a vent pipe on the
>> >drain where it is located and works with a P trap. It does not
>> >eliminate the need for a P trap, which is what the stated problem is.

>> I am not a plumber-- and I know some codes don't allow them. But
>> they work fine as a vent, and don't allow sewer gas into the house.
>> [the latter being the purpose of the p-trap, right?]

>They work as a vent in COMBINATION with a p-trap. In an installation
>with a p-trap and conventional vent pipe, the water in the p-trap
>blocks the gases from coming into the house through the drain and the
>vent pipe gives the gases an alternate low pressure exit out the
>roof. The device you recommended, commonly called an air admittance
>valve, is used where you can't provide a nearby vent pipe, like a
>kitchen island sink. It allows air in, to prevent a vacuum from
>forming and allowing water to flow normally. It will not allow waste
>gases to come out through the valve in the reverse direction. But
>the gases will still flow right out of the drain if there is no p-trap
>filled with water. Also, the air admittance valve depends on there
>being some other actual vent pipe in the system.

Big advantage of the "cheater" is it keeps the drain from siphoning
the trap dry.

>> >He says there is not sufficient elevation for a P trap, for which I
>> >think we need more explanation..

>> I agree here- a picture of the setup would probably elicit a 1/2 dozen
>> ways to attack the problem.

>Yes, since the typical washer can pump probably as high as the
>ceiling, it would seem a p-trap should be able to go somewhere.

>> Jim- Hide quoted text -
>> - Show quoted text -

Posted by on October 21, 2009, 9:54 am

wrote:

>>That solves the problem of not being able to have a vent pipe on the
>>drain where it is located and works with a P trap. It does not
>>eliminate the need for a P trap, which is what the stated problem is.

>I am not a plumber-- and I know some codes don't allow them. But
>they work fine as a vent, and don't allow sewer gas into the house.
>[the latter being the purpose of the p-trap, right?]

Yes, but you are talking about two separate things. The p-trap keeps
gas from entering the house via the drain in question. The device you
are talking about lets you create a vent inside the living space
without letting sewer gas enter via the vent. The OP has the first
problem, not the second. He wants to keep gas from entering via a
trapless drain.

Posted by bud-- on October 21, 2009, 10:19 am

Jim Elbrecht wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 05:27:19 -0700 (PDT), trader4@optonline.net wrote:
>

>>>> Hi,
>>>> My washer is basically at the same level as the main stack (or whatever
>>>> its horizontal equivalent). So there is not sufficient elevation to have
>>>> a p-trap on the exhaust (take my word for it - I just can't do it).
>>>> So I bought a check valve at HD. I think it's intended for a sump pump.
>>>> Will it solve my problem?
>>> No - if it is a check valve, it will catch lint, clog & never shut
>>> properly after about a week of use.
>>> This is what you want-http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/6833156
>>> HD carries them as a "cheater vent" - Put it on the top of the
>>> pipe that your washer drains into- and sani-T the drain hose. [there
>>> should be directions showing installations in the package]
>>> Jim

>> That solves the problem of not being able to have a vent pipe on the
>> drain where it is located and works with a P trap. It does not
>> eliminate the need for a P trap, which is what the stated problem is.

>
> I am not a plumber-- and I know some codes don't allow them. But
> they work fine as a vent, and don't allow sewer gas into the house.
> [the latter being the purpose of the p-trap, right?]

Interesting idea. But the description is "breaks siphoning action caused
by draining water" and "keep water seal in trap" and "located at least
6" above trap arm top". It is intended to add a vent to a P trap.
Without the trap there is nothing to prevent sewer gas from coming into
the house.

>> He says there is not sufficient elevation for a P trap, for which I
>> think we need more explanation..

>
> I agree here- a picture of the setup would probably elicit a 1/2 dozen
> ways to attack the problem.

Ditto.

--
bud--

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Sewage gases: check valve? - Page 2