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Smoke Detector Woes RPN 11-05-2006
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Posted by RPN on November 5, 2006, 3:04 pm


My neighbors are having a smoke detector problem. It recently started
beeping every 30 seconds or so. The obvious solution is that the beep
is a low battery indication and you should replace the battery, but that
apparently is not the case. The facts as I know them are as follows.

        1. The building is a modular home of recent construction with
        one floor and a basement.

        2. There are a total of 5 smoke detectors. There is one in each
        of the bedrooms (3), one in the hallway, and one in the basement.

        3. The smoke detectors on the first floor are all BRK 2002RAC. I
        forgot to check the model of the one in the basement, but it is
        different. I cannot say for sure it is even a BRK unit, but based
        on appearance and memory, it was probably BRK 9120B.

        4. According to the drawings, the four first floor detectors
        were put in by the modular home manufacturer. The one in the
        cellar appears to have put by the builder when they were putting
        it up. They are all interconnected.

        5. The first thing I did was to turn of the breaker (green LED in
        unit went out confirming loss of AC) and check the battery in each
        of the five units. I replaced four marginal ones. Testing was
        done with DVOM and a battery tester that added some load. The
        one good battery tested 8.99 V under load. The rest, the were
        replaced, were typically 8.5 V. The beeping remained on through
        out the process and did not stop even after all units were back in
        place with known good batteries and the power restored.

        6. The beeps did not always come from the same location, so I
        could not tell which unit was the problem one. As a result, I
        turned off the AC again, and took all five units down.

        7. This is where it gets strange. With all five units out and the
        AC power off, the beeps continued from different locations at
        different times, and they seemed to be coming from the original
        locations in the ceiling, not the units.

        8. I then removed the battery from all five units, so none were
        powered, just to be sure the units were not beeping. That did not
        help as the beeping continued.


I know large value capacitors can can keep things running for a long
time if the load is small, but there were four of us there, including my
wife and the two neighbors, and we all confirmed that the beeping
appeared to be coming from the ceiling mount point, and not the
disconnected units on the floor that had no batteries in them.

Based on this I have a few questions, besides the obvious one of
how to stop the beeping.

        1. I realize the smoke detectors are tied together so if one
        detects smoke and alarms, they all alarm. Does the same hold true
        for the low battery beep, and does it round robin through the
        other units?

        2. Is it possible that there are transducers or other audio
        transmitters near the mount point as well as on the unit?

I have never heard of such a thing, but I could see where someone
might of thought it was great idea so that you would still know a
remote sensor was alarming, even if the local unit was completely dead.
The mounting bracket for the detector covered the electrical box
behind it preventing a thorough inspection of what else might might be
in the box besides the wiring.

        3. If the sound is coming from the ceiling location, and not the
        units themselves, what is the source of the beep and where is the
        power for it coming from?

All the units are on the floor, with no batteries in them, and the AC
power has been turned off. The only thing I can think of is that there
is a detector that we have not located that is still connected and it
has a low battery, but if that is the case, it is not shown on the
electrical drawing for the house as constructed, and I can not locate
it. You would think it would not be buried out of sight.

I have looked around the archives for other postings that might be
similar in scope as mine, but could not find any. If I missed one, my
apologies, and please feel free to send me a URL rather than compose a
similar response.

Thanks for your help,

RPN

Posted by Joseph Meehan on November 5, 2006, 3:58 pm


RPN wrote:
> My neighbors are having a smoke detector problem. It recently started
> beeping every 30 seconds or so. The obvious solution is that the beep
> is a low battery indication and you should replace the battery, but
> that apparently is not the case. The facts as I know them are as
> follows.
>
> 1. The building is a modular home of recent construction with
> one floor and a basement.
>
> 2. There are a total of 5 smoke detectors. There is one in each
> of the bedrooms (3), one in the hallway, and one in the basement.
>
> 3. The smoke detectors on the first floor are all BRK 2002RAC. I
> forgot to check the model of the one in the basement, but it is
> different. I cannot say for sure it is even a BRK unit, but based
> on appearance and memory, it was probably BRK 9120B.
>
> 4. According to the drawings, the four first floor detectors
> were put in by the modular home manufacturer. The one in the
> cellar appears to have put by the builder when they were putting
> it up. They are all interconnected.
>
> 5. The first thing I did was to turn of the breaker (green LED in
> unit went out confirming loss of AC) and check the battery in each
> of the five units. I replaced four marginal ones. Testing was
> done with DVOM and a battery tester that added some load. The
> one good battery tested 8.99 V under load. The rest, the were
> replaced, were typically 8.5 V. The beeping remained on through
> out the process and did not stop even after all units were back in
> place with known good batteries and the power restored.
>
> 6. The beeps did not always come from the same location, so I
> could not tell which unit was the problem one. As a result, I
> turned off the AC again, and took all five units down.
>
> 7. This is where it gets strange. With all five units out and the
> AC power off, the beeps continued from different locations at
> different times, and they seemed to be coming from the original
> locations in the ceiling, not the units.
>
> 8. I then removed the battery from all five units, so none were
> powered, just to be sure the units were not beeping. That did not
> help as the beeping continued.
>
>
> I know large value capacitors can can keep things running for a long
> time if the load is small, but there were four of us there, including
> my wife and the two neighbors, and we all confirmed that the beeping
> appeared to be coming from the ceiling mount point, and not the
> disconnected units on the floor that had no batteries in them.
>
> Based on this I have a few questions, besides the obvious one of
> how to stop the beeping.
>
> 1. I realize the smoke detectors are tied together so if one
> detects smoke and alarms, they all alarm. Does the same hold true
> for the low battery beep, and does it round robin through the
> other units?
>
> 2. Is it possible that there are transducers or other audio
> transmitters near the mount point as well as on the unit?
>
> I have never heard of such a thing, but I could see where someone
> might of thought it was great idea so that you would still know a
> remote sensor was alarming, even if the local unit was completely
> dead. The mounting bracket for the detector covered the electrical box
> behind it preventing a thorough inspection of what else might might be
> in the box besides the wiring.
>
> 3. If the sound is coming from the ceiling location, and not the
> units themselves, what is the source of the beep and where is the
> power for it coming from?
>
> All the units are on the floor, with no batteries in them, and the AC
> power has been turned off. The only thing I can think of is that
> there is a detector that we have not located that is still connected
> and it has a low battery, but if that is the case, it is not shown on
> the electrical drawing for the house as constructed, and I can not
> locate it. You would think it would not be buried out of sight.
>
> I have looked around the archives for other postings that might be
> similar in scope as mine, but could not find any. If I missed one, my
> apologies, and please feel free to send me a URL rather than compose a
> similar response.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> RPN


You might want to consider that smoke detectors become less sensitive
with age. How old are these detectors? Maybe it might be good just to
replace them all. I just replaced all mine about six months ago. They were
all about 8 years old and I believe the recommendation was like 5-6 years.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia 's Muire duit




Posted by RBM on November 5, 2006, 4:08 pm


I've had customers with similar situations. First of all I find it
impossible to detect which unit is beeping, so I remove them all to an
outside location. Typically the beeping continues and I have found it to be:
Units mounted in the attic that no one knew about. Units in boiler rooms
that no one knew about, and carbon monoxide detectors that people had
plugged into wall outlets and never suspected


> My neighbors are having a smoke detector problem. It recently started
> beeping every 30 seconds or so. The obvious solution is that the beep
> is a low battery indication and you should replace the battery, but that
> apparently is not the case. The facts as I know them are as follows.
>
> 1. The building is a modular home of recent construction with
> one floor and a basement.
>
> 2. There are a total of 5 smoke detectors. There is one in each
> of the bedrooms (3), one in the hallway, and one in the basement.
>
> 3. The smoke detectors on the first floor are all BRK 2002RAC. I
> forgot to check the model of the one in the basement, but it is
> different. I cannot say for sure it is even a BRK unit, but based
> on appearance and memory, it was probably BRK 9120B.
>
> 4. According to the drawings, the four first floor detectors
> were put in by the modular home manufacturer. The one in the
> cellar appears to have put by the builder when they were putting
> it up. They are all interconnected.
>
> 5. The first thing I did was to turn of the breaker (green LED in
> unit went out confirming loss of AC) and check the battery in each
> of the five units. I replaced four marginal ones. Testing was
> done with DVOM and a battery tester that added some load. The
> one good battery tested 8.99 V under load. The rest, the were
> replaced, were typically 8.5 V. The beeping remained on through
> out the process and did not stop even after all units were back in
> place with known good batteries and the power restored.
>
> 6. The beeps did not always come from the same location, so I
> could not tell which unit was the problem one. As a result, I
> turned off the AC again, and took all five units down.
>
> 7. This is where it gets strange. With all five units out and the
> AC power off, the beeps continued from different locations at
> different times, and they seemed to be coming from the original
> locations in the ceiling, not the units.
>
> 8. I then removed the battery from all five units, so none were
> powered, just to be sure the units were not beeping. That did not
> help as the beeping continued.
>
>
> I know large value capacitors can can keep things running for a long
> time if the load is small, but there were four of us there, including my
> wife and the two neighbors, and we all confirmed that the beeping
> appeared to be coming from the ceiling mount point, and not the
> disconnected units on the floor that had no batteries in them.
>
> Based on this I have a few questions, besides the obvious one of
> how to stop the beeping.
>
> 1. I realize the smoke detectors are tied together so if one
> detects smoke and alarms, they all alarm. Does the same hold true
> for the low battery beep, and does it round robin through the
> other units?
>
> 2. Is it possible that there are transducers or other audio
> transmitters near the mount point as well as on the unit?
>
> I have never heard of such a thing, but I could see where someone
> might of thought it was great idea so that you would still know a
> remote sensor was alarming, even if the local unit was completely dead.
> The mounting bracket for the detector covered the electrical box
> behind it preventing a thorough inspection of what else might might be
> in the box besides the wiring.
>
> 3. If the sound is coming from the ceiling location, and not the
> units themselves, what is the source of the beep and where is the
> power for it coming from?
>
> All the units are on the floor, with no batteries in them, and the AC
> power has been turned off. The only thing I can think of is that there
> is a detector that we have not located that is still connected and it
> has a low battery, but if that is the case, it is not shown on the
> electrical drawing for the house as constructed, and I can not locate
> it. You would think it would not be buried out of sight.
>
> I have looked around the archives for other postings that might be
> similar in scope as mine, but could not find any. If I missed one, my
> apologies, and please feel free to send me a URL rather than compose a
> similar response.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> RPN



Posted by HeyBub on November 5, 2006, 5:07 pm



> I've had customers with similar situations. First of all I find it
> impossible to detect which unit is beeping, so I remove them all to an
> outside location. Typically the beeping continues and I have found it to
> be: Units mounted in the attic that no one knew about. Units in boiler
> rooms that no one knew about, and carbon monoxide detectors that people
> had plugged into wall outlets and never suspected

Second that. The frequency of the beep disguises its location.

We had a similar situation. After disarming the smoke detectors - and
continuing to hear the beep - we were convinced it was the burglar/fire
alarm system. The alarm company mechanic found it: a carbon monoxide
detector two rooms down the hall (it was plugged into a switched outlet and
its backup batteries had failed)!

Just make a list of things that go beep. It's got to be one. Don't forget
cell phones.



Posted by Don Young on November 5, 2006, 10:51 pm



>
>> I've had customers with similar situations. First of all I find it
>> impossible to detect which unit is beeping, so I remove them all to an
>> outside location. Typically the beeping continues and I have found it to
>> be: Units mounted in the attic that no one knew about. Units in boiler
>> rooms that no one knew about, and carbon monoxide detectors that people
>> had plugged into wall outlets and never suspected
>
> Second that. The frequency of the beep disguises its location.
>
> We had a similar situation. After disarming the smoke detectors - and
> continuing to hear the beep - we were convinced it was the burglar/fire
> alarm system. The alarm company mechanic found it: a carbon monoxide
> detector two rooms down the hall (it was plugged into a switched outlet
> and its backup batteries had failed)!
>
> Just make a list of things that go beep. It's got to be one. Don't forget
> cell phones.
>
A funnel and a piece of hose makes a pretty good directional sound locator,
if you want to try it.

Don Young



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