Smoke detectors

Posted by HeyBub on October 25, 2009, 8:08 am

RicodJour wrote:

>> *Zero* mention of any scientific evidence *whatsoever* that age alone
>> would render a smoke alarm inoperative. Absolutely NOTHING to suggest
>> the rationale behind the guideline of replacing them every ten years.

> Are you *quite* sure about THAT? Perhaps *you* could contact the NFPA
> (already capitalized) and ask to SEE their data. I'm *sure* that
> statistically SPEAKING one could determine the *likelihood* of HALF of
> the *inoperative* smoke DETECTORS being over TEN *YEARS* OLD. It is
> *very* UNLIKELY that it would be a *random* occurrence.
> Your words carry no more weight with the unseemly emphasis than
> usual. The NFPA - silly folk with a predilection for creating
> arbitrary standards - have absolutely no data with which to back up
> their recommendation. You should write an angry letter. Use a lot of
> emphasis to show you really mean it.

Correlation does not imply causation. Half the defective smoke detectors
being over ten years old may be due to other causes:

* They came from dirty homes and the dust-bunnies interfered with proper
operation. It's a fact that half the homes in America are dirtier than the
median.
* Ten years ago, there was a big influx of Chinese smoke detector circuitry
made with Melamine.
* ALL of the failed smoke detectors had their batteries removed to eliminate
the nagging chirp.

It's poor practice to make decisions based on assumptions about cause and
effect.

If one gets exercised over the "ten year = failure" business, here's an even
more shocking revelation: Virtually ALL of the failed smoke detectors were
colored white!

Beware.

Posted by RicodJour on October 25, 2009, 10:33 am

> Correlation does not imply causation.

Ummm, yes, it does. Correlation does not establish absolute
causation, but it certainly implies a link.

> Half the defective smoke detectors
> being over ten years old may be due to other causes:
> * They came from dirty homes and the dust-bunnies interfered with proper
> operation. It's a fact that half the homes in America are dirtier than th=

> median.

This is true.

> * Ten years ago, there was a big influx of Chinese smoke detector circuit=

> made with Melamine.

This is an attempt at a joke.

> * ALL of the failed smoke detectors had their batteries removed to elimin=

ate

> the nagging chirp.

This is nonsense.

> It's poor practice to make decisions based on assumptions about cause and
> effect.
> If one gets exercised over the "ten year =3D failure" business, here's an=

even

> more shocking revelation: Virtually ALL of the failed smoke detectors wer=

> colored white!
> Beware.

If you don't have any information to add, you shouldn't.

R

Posted by HeyBub on October 26, 2009, 11:42 am

RicodJour wrote:

>> Correlation does not imply causation.

> Ummm, yes, it does. Correlation does not establish absolute
> causation, but it certainly implies a link.

You may be on to something. I recently read a report about pickles being
dangerous! It was observed that all the people who ate pickles before 1900
were, today, either: a) Dead, or b) Had white hair and no teeth.

To test whether this correlation implied a valid correlation, experimenters
force-fed five pounds of pickles per day to laboratory rats. They discovered
that the rats developed distended stomachs and became lethargic. (The rats
were already white, so they couldn't test that part of the observation.)

Why this discovery has not made it to the main-stream media is a mystery.
Obviously there is a conspiracy involving Vlasic and NBC.

Use caution around pickles, particularly eye-protection when drinking pickle
juice from the jar before all the pickles are gone.

>> Half the defective smoke detectors
>> being over ten years old may be due to other causes:
>> * They came from dirty homes and the dust-bunnies interfered with
>> proper operation. It's a fact that half the homes in America are
>> dirtier than the median.

> This is true.

>> * Ten years ago, there was a big influx of Chinese smoke detector
>> circuitry made with Melamine.

> This is an attempt at a joke.

We won't know for sure until we can tabulate the number of children who ate
smoke detectors and developed kidney problems.

>> * ALL of the failed smoke detectors had their batteries removed to
>> eliminate the nagging chirp.

> This is nonsense.

Nope.

[Wikipedia]
"The first commercial smoke detectors came to market in 1969. Today they are
installed in 93% of US homes and 85% of UK homes. However it is estimated
that any given time over 30% of these alarms don't work, as users remove the
batteries, or forget to replace them."

[Department of Homeland Security, FEMA]
" First, the 12% of homes without alarms have more than half of the fires;
second, it is estimated that a third of the smoke alarms in place are not
working, often due to failure to replace a worn out battery..."
http://www.usfa.dhs.gov/downloads/pyfff/smkalarm.html

[Western Journal of Medicine, National Institutes of Health]
"Some failures are due to malfunction of the alarm itself, some are due to a
dead battery, and some do not function because the battery has been
removed..."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071009/

And several thousand other references.

>> It's poor practice to make decisions based on assumptions about
>> cause and effect.
>> If one gets exercised over the "ten year = failure" business, here's
>> an even more shocking revelation: Virtually ALL of the failed smoke
>> detectors were colored white!
>> Beware.

> If you don't have any information to add, you shouldn't.

You added: "This is true," "This is an attempt at a joke," and "This is
nonsense."

I applaud your significant contributions to the thread and stand in awe.

Your last admonition was somewhat confusing: If I don't have any information
to add, I can't very well add any information! I suspect, however, that's
there's a hidden meaning which I will eventually puzzle-out.

Posted by Stormin Mormon on October 26, 2009, 5:08 pm

I heard that in one experiment, 10 out of 10 lab rats dipped
in hot fudge promptly died. Ban hot fudge!

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

You may be on to something. I recently read a report about
pickles being
dangerous! It was observed that all the people who ate
pickles before 1900
were, today, either: a) Dead, or b) Had white hair and no
teeth.

To test whether this correlation implied a valid
correlation, experimenters
force-fed five pounds of pickles per day to laboratory rats.
They discovered
that the rats developed distended stomachs and became
lethargic. (The rats
were already white, so they couldn't test that part of the
observation.)

Why this discovery has not made it to the main-stream media
is a mystery.
Obviously there is a conspiracy involving Vlasic and NBC.

Use caution around pickles, particularly eye-protection when
drinking pickle
juice from the jar before all the pickles are gone.

Posted by Kurt Ullman on October 26, 2009, 6:50 pm

> I heard that in one experiment, 10 out of 10 lab rats dipped
> in hot fudge promptly died. Ban hot fudge!
>

Lab rats cause cancer!

--
To find that place where the rats don't race
and the phones don't ring at all.
If once, you've slept on an island.
Scott Kirby "If once you've slept on an island"

Page 4 of 8 < 1 2 3 > last >>

Similar Threads	Posted
Smoke Detectors	February 10, 2005, 3:10 pm
Cleaning smoke detectors?	March 3, 2006, 3:53 pm
replacing smoke detectors	June 19, 2006, 8:51 pm
Disposal of smoke and co2 detectors	May 6, 2007, 5:23 am
Smoke detectors - How to test	April 28, 2008, 5:59 pm
Smoke detectors for the elderly	October 3, 2009, 11:27 am
Wireless Smoke Detectors ?	November 13, 2009, 1:40 pm
wireless interconnected AC smoke detectors	June 30, 2007, 11:51 pm
question about interconnected smoke detectors	December 14, 2005, 2:15 pm
Hardwired smoke detectors wiring	July 13, 2009, 2:24 pm

Smoke detectors - Page 4