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Posted by Phisherman on November 20, 2008, 10:40 am
I need to tap in on the main water supply lines for a new bathroom and
decided to install two brass ball valves (leading to the new bathroom)
to make appliance installations easier. My 3/4" ball valves are
r858 150 WSP 600 WOG made by Mueller Industries B&K. My question is
about the inner parts that may be damaged by a propane torch. I've
seen plumbers who do not remove the inner parts of a ball valve, but
I've read somewhere that the stem should be removed before soldering
to prevent any heat damage.
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Posted by salty on November 20, 2008, 10:51 am
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
>I need to tap in on the main water supply lines for a new bathroom and
>decided to install two brass ball valves (leading to the new bathroom)
>to make appliance installations easier. My 3/4" ball valves are
>r858 150 WSP 600 WOG made by Mueller Industries B&K. My question is
>about the inner parts that may be damaged by a propane torch. I've
>seen plumbers who do not remove the inner parts of a ball valve, but
>I've read somewhere that the stem should be removed before soldering
>to prevent any heat damage.
Make sure there is no moisture in the pipes, and use a MAPP torch,
which burns a bit hotter than a propane torch. You don't need to
remove anything, just don't heat it longer than needed to flow solder
in the joints. If the pipes are dry, that will not be a problem.
ps. Don't try using a MAPP gas cylinder on a propane torch that was
not designed for the higher temps of MAPP.
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Posted by DerbyDad03 on November 20, 2008, 11:13 am
On Nov 20, 10:51=A0am, sa...@dog.com wrote:
show/hide quoted text
> wrote:
> >I need to tap in on the main water supply lines for a new bathroom and
> >decided to install two brass ball valves (leading to the new bathroom)
> >to make appliance installations easier. =A0 My 3/4" ball valves are
> >r858 150 WSP 600 WOG made by Mueller Industries B&K. =A0My question is
> >about the inner parts that may be damaged by a propane torch. =A0 =A0I'v=
> >seen plumbers who do not remove the inner parts of a ball valve, but
> >I've read somewhere that the stem should be removed before soldering
> >to prevent any heat damage.
> Make sure there is no moisture in the pipes, and use a MAPP torch,
> which burns a bit hotter than a propane torch. You don't need to
> remove anything, just don't heat it longer than needed to flow solder
> in the joints. If the pipes are dry, that will not be a problem.
> ps. Don't try using a MAPP gas cylinder on a propane torch that was
> not designed for the higher temps of MAPP.
I'll agree on the MAPP gas suggestion, but I'll ask this question:
If this type of plumbing is a one-off project and you really won't
need a MAPP-rated torch, is it cost effective to purchase a tool that
may never get used again as opposed to removing a couple of stems and
not having to worry about damaging them?
This goes double if you aren't as comfortable sweating the fittings as
a professional might be. A few extra minutes of work for the peace of
mind of knowing you won't damage the fittings might be worth it.
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Posted by salty on November 20, 2008, 11:40 am
On Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:13:12 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
show/hide quoted text
>On Nov 20, 10:51 am, sa...@dog.com wrote:
>> wrote:
>> >I need to tap in on the main water supply lines for a new bathroom and
>> >decided to install two brass ball valves (leading to the new bathroom)
>> >to make appliance installations easier. My 3/4" ball valves are
>> >r858 150 WSP 600 WOG made by Mueller Industries B&K. My question is
>> >about the inner parts that may be damaged by a propane torch. I've
>> >seen plumbers who do not remove the inner parts of a ball valve, but
>> >I've read somewhere that the stem should be removed before soldering
>> >to prevent any heat damage.
>> Make sure there is no moisture in the pipes, and use a MAPP torch,
>> which burns a bit hotter than a propane torch. You don't need to
>> remove anything, just don't heat it longer than needed to flow solder
>> in the joints. If the pipes are dry, that will not be a problem.
>> ps. Don't try using a MAPP gas cylinder on a propane torch that was
>> not designed for the higher temps of MAPP.
>I'll agree on the MAPP gas suggestion, but I'll ask this question:
>If this type of plumbing is a one-off project and you really won't
>need a MAPP-rated torch, is it cost effective to purchase a tool that
>may never get used again as opposed to removing a couple of stems and
>not having to worry about damaging them?
>This goes double if you aren't as comfortable sweating the fittings as
>a professional might be. A few extra minutes of work for the peace of
>mind of knowing you won't damage the fittings might be worth it.
If you are too clumsy to do it with the parts in, you may ruin the
casting anyway by heating it to the point where it distorts. I'm also
not at all sure that you can remove and replace all the vulnerable
seals without creating leaks.
A new torch that will work with MAPP is not a major expense in the
scheme of things. When compared to the cost of having someone else do
this job, it's downright trivial, even if you never use it again. I'm
betting any homeowner will use it more than once in their lifetime. We
are talking about what... $30?
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Posted by Dan Lanciani on November 20, 2008, 4:46 pm
teamarrows@eznet.net (DerbyDad03) writes:
| On Nov 20, 10:51=A0am, sa...@dog.com wrote:
show/hide quoted text
| > wrote:
| >
| > >I need to tap in on the main water supply lines for a new bathroom and
| > >decided to install two brass ball valves (leading to the new bathroom)
| > >to make appliance installations easier. =A0 My 3/4" ball valves are
| > >r858 150 WSP 600 WOG made by Mueller Industries B&K. =A0My question is
| > >about the inner parts that may be damaged by a propane torch. =A0 =A0I'v=
| e
show/hide quoted text
| > >seen plumbers who do not remove the inner parts of a ball valve, but
| > >I've read somewhere that the stem should be removed before soldering
| > >to prevent any heat damage.
| >
| > Make sure there is no moisture in the pipes, and use a MAPP torch,
| > which burns a bit hotter than a propane torch. You don't need to
| > remove anything, just don't heat it longer than needed to flow solder
| > in the joints. If the pipes are dry, that will not be a problem.
| >
| > ps. Don't try using a MAPP gas cylinder on a propane torch that was
| > not designed for the higher temps of MAPP.
| I'll agree on the MAPP gas suggestion, but I'll ask this question:
| If this type of plumbing is a one-off project and you really won't
| need a MAPP-rated torch, is it cost effective to purchase a tool that
| may never get used again as opposed to removing a couple of stems and
| not having to worry about damaging them?
Many (most?) ball valves cannot be disassembled, nor can they later
be repaired. You might want to look at the Apollo/Conbraco Pipe Master
product which effectively has a union at each end and uses adapters
to connect to most popular pipe systems. Not only do you not have to
heat the valve but you can later replace the whole body if necessary.
I've had a lot of licensed-plumber-installed ball valves fail. I
don't know whether they were damaged by heat or the seals were scored
by the horrible debris that comes when they flush our ancient street
pipes, but either way this product seems like a win.
One thing to watch: although both the 3/4" and 1/2" versions claim to
be full-flow, the 1/2" version looks a bit smaller than a typical full-
flow ball valve. The 3/4" version is fine.
Dan Lanciani
ddl@danlan.*com
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>decided to install two brass ball valves (leading to the new bathroom)
>to make appliance installations easier. My 3/4" ball valves are
>r858 150 WSP 600 WOG made by Mueller Industries B&K. My question is
>about the inner parts that may be damaged by a propane torch. I've
>seen plumbers who do not remove the inner parts of a ball valve, but
>I've read somewhere that the stem should be removed before soldering
>to prevent any heat damage.