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Home Repair - - If it ain't broken, don't fix it. Otherwise look here.
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Posted by Harry L on November 8, 2009, 10:18 am
On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:02:54 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:
show/hide quoted text
>>> If the two hots are on the *same* leg of the service, then the neutral could
>>> be overloaded, because it will carry the *sum* of the currents in the hot
>>> wires. This is a fire hazard.
>>Heh.... could always breaker the neutral!
>How do you plan to do that?
Install a second service panel. Don't connect any hot wires to it, but
connect one (or both if you need to) of the buses to the neutral in
the main panel. Now you have a place for neutral breakers.
OK, that's not safe. Get a 3-phase panel (and breakers) and use the
third "phase" for neutral.
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Posted by Existential Angst on November 8, 2009, 10:23 am
show/hide quoted text
> On Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:02:54 GMT, spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
> wrote:
>>>> If the two hots are on the *same* leg of the service, then the neutral
>>>> could
>>>> be overloaded, because it will carry the *sum* of the currents in the
>>>> hot
>>>> wires. This is a fire hazard.
>>>Heh.... could always breaker the neutral!
>>How do you plan to do that?
> Install a second service panel. Don't connect any hot wires to it, but
> connect one (or both if you need to) of the buses to the neutral in
> the main panel. Now you have a place for neutral breakers.
> OK, that's not safe. Get a 3-phase panel (and breakers) and use the
> third "phase" for neutral.
Ingenious!
And, if Local 3 gets a hold of this idea and lobbies the NEC.......
--
EA
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Posted by David Nebenzahl on November 7, 2009, 4:06 pm
On 11/7/2009 10:49 AM Existential Angst spake thus:
show/hide quoted text
>
>> If the two hots are on the *same* leg of the service, then the
>> neutral could be overloaded, because it will carry the *sum* of the
>> currents in the hot wires. This is a fire hazard.
>
> Heh.... could always breaker the neutral!
I know your tongue is in your cheek: however, while that would be a
clever way of making the circuit safe, at least fire-wise, I'm sure you
realize it could make it very, very unsafe, since it would possibly
leave an energized hot wire but a disconnected neutral.
But hey, it's a fun thought experiment.
(This is a similar problem to those very badly designed fuseboxes of
yesteryear that had fuses for both hot and neutral. My friend's house
has one of those, which can leave the hot energized but the neutral
disconnected. Wonder what genius came up with that design? His simple
but elegant solution is to overfuse the neutrals (w/30-amp fuses),
leaving 15 A fuses (actually circuit breakers in the form of a fuse) on
the hot side.)
--
Who needs a junta or a dictatorship when you have a Congress
blowing Wall Street, using the media as a condom?
- harvested from Usenet
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Posted by Robert Green on November 8, 2009, 6:17 am
show/hide quoted text
> On 11/7/2009 10:49 AM Existential Angst spake thus:
> >> If the two hots are on the *same* leg of the service, then the
> >> neutral could be overloaded, because it will carry the *sum* of the
> >> currents in the hot wires. This is a fire hazard.
> > Heh.... could always breaker the neutral!
> I know your tongue is in your cheek: however, while that would be a
> clever way of making the circuit safe, at least fire-wise, I'm sure you
> realize it could make it very, very unsafe, since it would possibly
> leave an energized hot wire but a disconnected neutral.
> But hey, it's a fun thought experiment.
> (This is a similar problem to those very badly designed fuseboxes of
> yesteryear that had fuses for both hot and neutral. My friend's house
> has one of those, which can leave the hot energized but the neutral
> disconnected. Wonder what genius came up with that design? His simple
> but elegant solution is to overfuse the neutrals (w/30-amp fuses),
> leaving 15 A fuses (actually circuit breakers in the form of a fuse) on
> the hot side.)
I was reading about the English "ring" circuit the other day and how they
abandoned the central fuse/breaker panel altogether and put fuses in each
plug! It's remarkable, I think, that there's so much uniformity in
electrical wiring. Keeping in mind that most regulatory bodies operate on
the tombstone basis (enough people die, time to regulate something!) that
means that it's more than likely somebody died for every rule they come up
with.
I wonder how many electricians got their union card renewed by St. Peter to
cause the "tied breaker" rules to come into existence for three-wire Edison
circuits? Heck, how many elephants died in the AC v. DC war between Tesla
and Edison? This electricity is lethal stuff.
I wonder how many people have been electrocuted since the electric age
began. It's got to be impressive. Add in the people who were killed in
fires or explosions caused by electrical ignition, and you've probably got a
major US city's worth of deaths. No wonder why the Greeks reserved the
lightning bolt for the capo di tutti capi, Zeus. Back then electricity
killed people without providing much in the way of benefits. At least now
we get some heat, light and TV power out of the deal and instead of Zeus,
the Energizer Bunny is the new symbol of electric power.
Bobby G.
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Posted by Existential Angst on November 8, 2009, 9:27 am
show/hide quoted text
>> On 11/7/2009 10:49 AM Existential Angst spake thus:
>> >> If the two hots are on the *same* leg of the service, then the
>> >> neutral could be overloaded, because it will carry the *sum* of the
>> >> currents in the hot wires. This is a fire hazard.
>> > Heh.... could always breaker the neutral!
>> I know your tongue is in your cheek: however, while that would be a
>> clever way of making the circuit safe, at least fire-wise, I'm sure you
>> realize it could make it very, very unsafe, since it would possibly
>> leave an energized hot wire but a disconnected neutral.
>> But hey, it's a fun thought experiment.
>> (This is a similar problem to those very badly designed fuseboxes of
>> yesteryear that had fuses for both hot and neutral. My friend's house
>> has one of those, which can leave the hot energized but the neutral
>> disconnected. Wonder what genius came up with that design? His simple
>> but elegant solution is to overfuse the neutrals (w/30-amp fuses),
>> leaving 15 A fuses (actually circuit breakers in the form of a fuse) on
>> the hot side.)
> I was reading about the English "ring" circuit the other day and how they
> abandoned the central fuse/breaker panel altogether and put fuses in each
> plug! It's remarkable, I think, that there's so much uniformity in
> electrical wiring. Keeping in mind that most regulatory bodies operate on
> the tombstone basis (enough people die, time to regulate something!) that
> means that it's more than likely somebody died for every rule they come up
> with.
> I wonder how many electricians got their union card renewed by St. Peter
> to
> cause the "tied breaker" rules to come into existence for three-wire
> Edison
> circuits? Heck, how many elephants died in the AC v. DC war between Tesla
> and Edison? This electricity is lethal stuff.
> I wonder how many people have been electrocuted since the electric age
> began. It's got to be impressive. Add in the people who were killed in
> fires or explosions caused by electrical ignition, and you've probably got
> a
> major US city's worth of deaths. No wonder why the Greeks reserved the
> lightning bolt for the capo di tutti capi, Zeus. Back then electricity
> killed people without providing much in the way of benefits. At least now
> we get some heat, light and TV power out of the deal and instead of Zeus,
> the Energizer Bunny is the new symbol of electric power.
Well, now we have automobiles, good for 50,000 quick deaths a year, McD's,
ciggies, and ethanol good for a few hundred thousand slow deaths a year, and
for those who want lobotomization whilst slowly dying, we got RealityTV,
JudgeJudy, JohnEdwards Cross Country, and all the rest.
Altho, I *do* miss Whitney Houston bellowing at her in-house dealer Bobby
Brown for her crack pipe....
--
show/hide quoted text
> --
> Bobby G.
>
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Page 10 of 13 < 1 2 3 > last >>
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>>> be overloaded, because it will carry the *sum* of the currents in the hot
>>> wires. This is a fire hazard.
>>Heh.... could always breaker the neutral!
>How do you plan to do that?