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Swimming pool filter questions rb608 05-23-2006
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Posted by rb608 on May 23, 2006, 11:00 am
Upon removing the cover, I was greeted with 12,000 gallons of dark
green water that was once my swimming pool (24' diameter, 48" deep,
above ground). I was anxious to crank up the new pool filter & clear
this mess up, and in no time, the 1 hp pump was hard at work. Three,
no make that 4 bags of shock went into the pool in a frontal assault
against the green invader, and the filter ran all day. By the next
morning, the green was significantly lighter, and in went two more bags
of shock. By midday, we were getting somewhere. The green was almost
completely gone, replaced by a dense but translucent whiteness. A thin
scum of dead algae covered the surface, and patches of foam floated
around. I left the filter running all day; but saw no improvement by
nightfall.

My new pool filter is a cartridge filter, a Hayward Star Clear, 175 sf
filter area. It replaces an old but reliable Doughboy DE filter.
Because it's my first cartridge filter, I have no frame of reference
as to what to expect in performance. I know that cartridge filters
allow smaller particles than DE. Clean and fresh, the filter started
off at 6 psf pressure, and after running all day, it's only up to 8
psf. That's a good thing as far as I'm concerned, because one of
the reasons I abandoned DE was how often it would require backwashing
under these circumstances. It's also why I bought a larger filter
than I ought to need. On the other hand, the pool is still cloudy, and
time between cleanings doesn't matter if the filter isn't going to
clear up the pool.

So, for all you pool experts out there, I have a couple questions:

I realize that given the seriousness of my original algae problem, it
isn't going to clear up in a day, but inasmuch as neither the water
clarity nor the pressure gauge seems to be changing significantly, is
this normal for a cartridge filter? Are they slower to filter the
water as well as slower to clog?

I have taken the cartridge out once & hosed it off, and I paid no
attention to up or down when I put it back, assuming they were
interchangeable. Should I have checked?

On a different issue apart from the filter itself, I am getting a
steady stream of small bubbles with the return water that is
contributing to the foam on the pool surface. Where is this air coming
from? The basket gasket? The impeller gasket? It's not so much
it's a big deal, but it's nagging evidence that something's not
sealed properly.

TIA,
Joe F.


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Posted by BobK207 on May 23, 2006, 12:23 pm

rb608 wrote:
> Upon removing the cover, I was greeted with 12,000 gallons of dark
> green water that was once my swimming pool (24' diameter, 48" deep,
> above ground). I was anxious to crank up the new pool filter & clear
> this mess up, and in no time, the 1 hp pump was hard at work. Three,
> no make that 4 bags of shock went into the pool in a frontal assault
> against the green invader, and the filter ran all day. By the next
> morning, the green was significantly lighter, and in went two more bags
> of shock. By midday, we were getting somewhere. The green was almost
> completely gone, replaced by a dense but translucent whiteness. A thin
> scum of dead algae covered the surface, and patches of foam floated
> around. I left the filter running all day; but saw no improvement by
> nightfall.
>
> My new pool filter is a cartridge filter, a Hayward Star Clear, 175 sf
> filter area. It replaces an old but reliable Doughboy DE filter.
> Because it's my first cartridge filter, I have no frame of reference
> as to what to expect in performance. I know that cartridge filters
> allow smaller particles than DE. Clean and fresh, the filter started
> off at 6 psf pressure, and after running all day, it's only up to 8
> psf. That's a good thing as far as I'm concerned, because one of
> the reasons I abandoned DE was how often it would require backwashing
> under these circumstances. It's also why I bought a larger filter
> than I ought to need. On the other hand, the pool is still cloudy, and
> time between cleanings doesn't matter if the filter isn't going to
> clear up the pool.
>
> So, for all you pool experts out there, I have a couple questions:
>
> I realize that given the seriousness of my original algae problem, it
> isn't going to clear up in a day, but inasmuch as neither the water
> clarity nor the pressure gauge seems to be changing significantly, is
> this normal for a cartridge filter? Are they slower to filter the
> water as well as slower to clog?
>
> I have taken the cartridge out once & hosed it off, and I paid no
> attention to up or down when I put it back, assuming they were
> interchangeable. Should I have checked?
>
> On a different issue apart from the filter itself, I am getting a
> steady stream of small bubbles with the return water that is
> contributing to the foam on the pool surface. Where is this air coming
> from? The basket gasket? The impeller gasket? It's not so much
> it's a big deal, but it's nagging evidence that something's not
> sealed properly.
>
> TIA,
> Joe F.

Joe-

That's a whole bunch of questions.

I've got experrience w/ DE (pool) & Catridge (spa)

DE is a much better filter but messy to clean / maintain

BTDT....then got a pool man & finally moved away from the pool :)

your cleanup went very well,

now you need a flocauting(?) addtive also called clarifier) ....causes
little particles to attach to each other & make big particles that the
filter can grab.

in my spa when I had the water chem correct it would be crystal clear a
few days after a weekend of partying by my teenage sons........pH,
shock, clarfier, run filter, clean filter.....presto clean!


bubbles in the return uaually means an air leak on the 'vacuum' side

basket gasket, pump housing, piping, joints

cheers
Bob


Posted by on June 5, 2006, 11:41 am
>
> now you need a flocauting(?) addtive also called clarifier) ....causes
> little particles to attach to each other & make big particles that the
> filter can grab.
>
DE Filter Questions

I think I need Clarifier...? I have Triton Nautilus DE Filter. When i
"recharged" it by pouring DE into skimmer I saw cloudy water being
pumped back into pool for a few minutes then it stopped. Is it normal
to see clouds jetting from inlets while adding DE into the skimmer?

The water is clear and chemicals all balanced. I can see the bottom of
the deep end.

So I decided to vaccuum and again I see clouds pumping into pool as if
not filtering these particles.

Next I open up the filter because I was convinced something wasn't
right. I gently hosed off the elements and checked them for holes or
rips. They check out fine. So I then made sure that each element was
seated and put it all back together.

Once again I mix up 6 coffee cans full of DE into a pail, add water to
make a slurry and poured it into the skimmer. And again I see clouds
begin jetting from the inlets but they stop after a minute.

Hours later the pool is again clear and I can see the bottom but the
particles from the clouds have accumulated on the bottom.

Will Clarifier clump these particles into size that will catch them in
the filter?

I am afraaid that if I vaccuum they will just circulate back into the
pool like an endless cycle.

Any and all DE Filter owners your comments are welcome!!! Please Help!


Posted by BobK207 on June 5, 2006, 4:05 pm

greilly@zoll.com wrote:
> >
> > now you need a flocauting(?) addtive also called clarifier) ....causes
> > little particles to attach to each other & make big particles that the
> > filter can grab.
> >
> DE Filter Questions
>
> I think I need Clarifier...? I have Triton Nautilus DE Filter. When i
> "recharged" it by pouring DE into skimmer I saw cloudy water being
> pumped back into pool for a few minutes then it stopped. Is it normal
> to see clouds jetting from inlets while adding DE into the skimmer?
>
> The water is clear and chemicals all balanced. I can see the bottom of
> the deep end.
>
> So I decided to vaccuum and again I see clouds pumping into pool as if
> not filtering these particles.
>
> Next I open up the filter because I was convinced something wasn't
> right. I gently hosed off the elements and checked them for holes or


> rips. They check out fine. So I then made sure that each element was
> seated and put it all back together.
>
> Once again I mix up 6 coffee cans full of DE into a pail, add water to
> make a slurry and poured it into the skimmer. And again I see clouds
> begin jetting from the inlets but they stop after a minute.
>
> Hours later the pool is again clear and I can see the bottom but the
> particles from the clouds have accumulated on the bottom.
>
> Will Clarifier clump these particles into size that will catch them in
> the filter?
>
> I am afraaid that if I vaccuum they will just circulate back into the
> pool like an endless cycle.
>
> Any and all DE Filter owners your comments are welcome!!! Please Help!


SInce you question is about a DE filter it would be best to start
another thread rather than to piggy-back this one.

I do not currently own a home wil a pool or a Spa (yahoo!) but I have
YEARS of experience owning / working them.


First of all, let me say, you are doing all the right things.

The mesh size of the nylon fabric on the filter grids will allow some
DE to pass until the DE builds up on the grids to form the filtering
layer

take a look at http://www.poolandspa.com/page799.htm

typically clarifiers / flocculating agents are not needed in DE systems
(we never used them). Spas with cartirdge filters are anotehr story,
used them all the time to good effect.


When a DE filter is recharged correctly & settles down, you will get no
recirculating particles upon vacuuming.

Cloudy water from the return lines means particles getting thru the
filter; (damaged mesh, hole, seam failure, leak at junction with
filter tree, ???)

but you looked for that, so?????

could also be poor DE distribtuon over the filter grids, but you're
doing it correctly by premixing the DE.

we used to cheat & just dump it in the skimmer & depend on the pump to
mix it :)

we gave the filter a couple turns to distribute the DE & everything was
fine

some how stuff is getting by your filter & IMO a clarifier is not the
answer; you've got some sort of internal leak path.

let us know how it all works out

cheers
Bob


Posted by Mike Hartigan on June 18, 2006, 8:43 am
When adding DE via the skimmer (yes, I simply dump the dry powder in
there), I set the valve on 'Filter to Waste' until all of the powder
is taken in. Only then to I send it to the pool. The result is that
the initial plume of powder ends up in the garden instead of in the
pool.

greilly@zoll.com says...
> >
> > now you need a flocauting(?) addtive also called clarifier) ....causes
> > little particles to attach to each other & make big particles that the
> > filter can grab.
> >
> DE Filter Questions
>
> I think I need Clarifier...? I have Triton Nautilus DE Filter. When i
> "recharged" it by pouring DE into skimmer I saw cloudy water being
> pumped back into pool for a few minutes then it stopped. Is it normal
> to see clouds jetting from inlets while adding DE into the skimmer?
>
> The water is clear and chemicals all balanced. I can see the bottom of
> the deep end.
>
> So I decided to vaccuum and again I see clouds pumping into pool as if
> not filtering these particles.
>
> Next I open up the filter because I was convinced something wasn't
> right. I gently hosed off the elements and checked them for holes or
> rips. They check out fine. So I then made sure that each element was
> seated and put it all back together.
>
> Once again I mix up 6 coffee cans full of DE into a pail, add water to
> make a slurry and poured it into the skimmer. And again I see clouds
> begin jetting from the inlets but they stop after a minute.
>
> Hours later the pool is again clear and I can see the bottom but the
> particles from the clouds have accumulated on the bottom.
>
> Will Clarifier clump these particles into size that will catch them in
> the filter?
>
> I am afraaid that if I vaccuum they will just circulate back into the
> pool like an endless cycle.
>
> Any and all DE Filter owners your comments are welcome!!! Please Help!
>
>

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